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#11
04-06-2006, 09:50 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Stop going on about M. [/ QUOTE ] Tigerite vs. Dan Harrington in a cage match. Who wins? I think tigerite hates him enough for the M to get him motivated enough to fight pretty hard. Dan's also pretty old, but he's wily. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. Listen I really don't hate the concept of M or something, but it is just not right to use (only) it to base your decisions on in ANY form of poker. It has some relevance in MTT's, and also some in satellites where it's winner takes all. But in a 2 or 3-payout structure, which are uneven as well, it's just not good to use it barring perhaps a small "ok, so that means he MIGHT be pushing SLIGHTLY wider than usual". 
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#12
04-06-2006, 09:56 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Stop going on about M. [/ QUOTE ] Tigerite vs. Dan Harrington in a cage match. Who wins? I think tigerite hates him enough for the M to get him motivated enough to fight pretty hard. Dan's also pretty old, but he's wily. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. Listen I really don't hate the concept of M or something, but it is just not right to use (only) it to base your decisions on in ANY form of poker. It has some relevance in MTT's, and also some in satellites where it's winner takes all. But in a 2 or 3-payout structure, which are uneven as well, it's just not good to use it barring perhaps a small "ok, so that means he MIGHT be pushing SLIGHTLY wider than usual". [/ QUOTE ] I'm still confused. I didn't even mention M in my origional post. It was only a minor consideration in my thinking. I was mostly considering the range of hands I thought he would push with and the odds I was getting to call.
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#13
04-06-2006, 09:58 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
It didn't seem like you were only considering it as a minor consideration, the way you put it. Anyway it is just far easier to think in terms of BB and clouds the issue less. Whatever, I think this is a fold, the guy isn't (or shouldn't be) pushing with a ridiculously huge range here.
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#14
04-06-2006, 10:03 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
Fine, so the guy has 7 BB's. You're saying I should conclude he has probably no worse than say A-9, KQ, or a pair. And that he was pushing with no less than that on his other pushes as well??
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#16
04-06-2006, 10:12 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
You forget you see that you'll need to be at least 50% against his range here to call.. you are way below 50% against Ax and KT+, obviously, and below 50% against all pairs. So to call here, you'd need an equal amount of hands that you're the same amount AHEAD of to call.. this pushes his range up to some ridiculous amount, I would suspect at least 50-60% of hands, I haven't run it though.
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#19
04-06-2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
I was like you once, after playing limit for a year and reading Harringtons books I started with STT's because I wanted to try tournament poker and didn't want to take up a 4-hour block of time to do it. I thought in terms of "M" and made moves that were suboptimal and more geared to a multi-table tournament. What I did get out of Harrington V2 was the knowledge I had to change gears as the blinds went up, and an idea of when the gear shifts would occur. This was valuable for someone just starting tournament poker coming from a limit ring game background- but not enough to really play STT's very well.
M is a perfectly reasonable concept and Harrington's book will keep you from doing stupid crap raising 3xBB with a 8xBB stack or limping with PP's to try for a set when you have <12BB. This is good. But Harrington's M is middle school. ICM is college. ICM is doing what Harrington calls "Structured Hand Analysis" for all-in situations. The best tool for convienent ICM analysis is SnG Power Tools. To answer your original question, you should download the demo for SnG power tools and run the tutorials. The one titled 'mind the gap' will give you the answer you are looking for and then you will be able to answer the question 'was this an ok call' for yourself. You'll be suprized how big the gap concept gap gets once you near the bubble.
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#20
04-06-2006, 10:56 AM
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Re: 119\'s Bubble strategy?? Was this an okay call?
[ QUOTE ]
With the money in the pot, wouldn't I only need to be about 40-45% against his range to make this a correct call? [/ QUOTE ] You're trying to apply pot odds in a vacuum. What you say might be correct in a MTT where you are far from the money. The situation here is dramatically different. You are on the bubble in a tournament where two players get ALL the money. The downside of losing this hand requires you to have an overlay from what the pot odds alone would tell you-a fairly big overlay.
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