HOH wrong: AK is worth a call???

[SeriousStudent]

I am confident that the re-raise is still a better play than flat calling even with deep stacks, but the difference between the two plays is not as great as with smaller stacks.

Other posts in this forum have discussed the "reverse implied odds" of AK on the flop, as you only see 3 of the 5 cards that can make your hand. AK is difficult to play when you miss the flop, even when you have position, and you will miss it most of the time. With AK in the blinds, I can't see how a call versus reraise would be the optimum play.

And if the original raiser comes over the top of your reraise, is that so bad? The only hand that destroys you is AA, and I tend to like getting all my chips in preflop with AK deep stacks even early in the tournament. You have to get lucky and have a lot of chips at the FT to get 4th or better, so why not start right here.

[registrar]

Well, it's the happiest I've ever been folding tptk. What's can he have that I'm ahead and how many chips is it going to take me to find out?

Probably worth me posting the hand.

[tubasteve]

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I skimmed HOH2 again, and except for Red Zone play, I don't see an example or text that advocates making a reraise of a preflop open raiser with AK, but I could be wrong. Could you point me to one?

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Keep in mind "Action Dan" is one of the most conservative and most successful players ever and still would advocate a preflop reraise/push with AK in most situations late in tournaments.

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FYP.

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I was referring to his deepstack play of AK, mainly covered in HOH1.

[Karakaz]

I completely agree with your assessment, but you should also add more variations of Ax to the range. It's just sick how often villain will call (all-in) with AJ/AT/Ax in tournaments with relatively small buyins (<$200+15).

Additionally, Dan's advice is (afaik) meant for tournaments with a slower blind-structure than what is commonly seen in online tournaments.

[Karakaz]

I disagree with the statement that you should be willing to go all-in with AK while deep, however I do see your rationale.

The issue is, your fold equity goes while gain goes down, HOWEVER; your exectations are greatly reduced in the cases you do get a call while playing deep.

[SeriousStudent]

The mental shift I made that is working for me so far is best described in Lindgren's book. He suggests that you should find reasons to get involved in hands, rather than wait for the ideal situation.

AK all in deep stacks preflop early in the tournament, after an open MP raiser, you reraise and the original raiser goes all in and you call, is a "risky" play and probably slightly -EV considering that hand alone. But often you will prevail, and having a huge lead deep stacks allows you to limp in with a lot of speculative hands while the blinds remain low, and then stack someone who overvalues TPTK. When I am fortunate enough to be at or close to the chip leader by the end of the first hour, my chances of making the FT are over 10X what they would otherwise be. Which makes the AK all in a very positive EV move overall in my view. This is especially true in rebuy tournaments.

[SeriousStudent]

Agree that Dan would advocate in late stages, but I am advocating it in the early and middle stages as well. I'm pretty certain that Dan does not advocate that, and thats why, at least for on line play of $100 buy in and up, I believe HOH is "wrong".

[donny5k]

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And if the original raiser comes over the top of your reraise, is that so bad? The only hand that destroys you is AA, and I tend to like getting all my chips in preflop with AK deep stacks even early in the tournament. You have to get lucky and have a lot of chips at the FT to get 4th or better, so why not start right here.

[/ QUOTE ] If you have 50+BB and get all-in with AK you are typically making a pretty large mistake. You are advocating getting your money in as a (significant) dog early on (you are against AA-QQ a lot here)?

[SeriousStudent]

50BB is unusual on line. I was thinking on line deep stack is 30 to 40. I think the range is bigger for the original raiser to go all in. You must include AK and some players sem to do this even with mid pairs like JJ.

I already raised 12BB, so if we both have 35BB, my pot odds are 23BB versus the 48.5 already in the pot, or better than 2:1. If the raiser is extremely tight, I would probably fold, but often I would call.

AA-3, KK-3, QQ-6, JJ-6, AK-9 are the possible holdings.
Expect a return of 30BB out of the 71.5 in the pot so odds are about 1.5.

Once I've made the big raise, it is correct to call unless you are certain the villian would only do this with AA and KK, and not AK.

[tminus]

im with you on this...but most people here think my post flop play is tight