1/2 Limit, 2nd nuts, raise?

Jehaim · #1 01-05-2006, 04:19 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
5 folds, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ah 5s 4c (High: three of a kind, aces).
SB has Qh 9h Jd Kd (High: straight, ace high).
Outcome: SB wins 9 BB. 

================================================== =======
Trying to learn this game. Bare with me. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Should I raise on flop and/or turn with the 2nd nuts? Or just call?

Would it be ok in a Pot Limit 08-game to lose all your chips on this 2nd nuts hand?

Phil153 · #2 01-05-2006, 04:27 PM

Cap every street. Only QJ is currently beating you and there are a lot of second best hands and draws to pay you off here. Slow down if a flush or four to a straight (i.e. a Q or J) hits though.

Also (and you're going to hate me for this), it's not wrong to just call the flop, get some calls behind and play your top set like a draw. Depends on how you feel. But there's nothing wrong with going for broke here, it's up to you.

The reason I mention both is because the expected value of each action is so close it doesn't really matter how you play it imo. The pot isn't large so winning it right there isn't so important. It's really a question of how loose your opponents are and if they'll call 2 bets cold with inferior hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to learn this game. Bare with me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Resisting the urge to post nudie self pics, don't tempt me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Jehaim · #3 01-05-2006, 04:33 PM

Oops. Lol. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

No rescue in editting now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks for your answer, should I have bet the river in this case?

wackjob · #4 01-05-2006, 05:04 PM

When he donks the turn it is calldown time. People will play a lot more transparent in O8 and a lot faster with big made hands due to the chance of being drawn out on. If he didn't bet the river, I for sure would with the 2nd nut lo and 3rd nut hi.

dcasper70 · #5 01-05-2006, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he didn't bet the river, I for sure would with the 2nd nut lo and 3rd nut hi.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if you had no low, kinda like the OP...

wackjob · #6 01-05-2006, 05:41 PM

My reading skills are elite. Ddin't realize you were counterfeit on the river with your lo. I'd check behind the river, of course your villain is not going to check the river if you don't raise the turn. I think the turn raise is a mistake. I'd probaly call down after the turn donk.

Of course, you shouldn't ever post results because it will change peoples reactions.

Dallara · #7 01-05-2006, 06:12 PM

Imagine you're the SB in this hand.
Two questions:
1 - Do you re-raise the turn with the nut high and no low? I think not because of the flush draw and low draw, but I'm curious if others feel differently.

2 - Do you bet the river? I think no because the low is out there, but you do have the nut high. You only get called with a split or when you're quartered right? It's easy to say that the turn raise indicates a made hand not a low draw when you know the results, but would you make a river bet based on that assumption?

dcasper70 · #8 01-05-2006, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2 - Do you bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely.

Bullet_Dodger · #9 01-05-2006, 07:31 PM

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I would have just called the flop. You dont have the nuts, and have a VERY vunerable hand.

If you arent already behind to QJ, any Q,J or club on the turn can really wreck your hand. And a low card will pop up often times on the turn and potentially take 1/2 the pot away from you on the river.

The big reason (for me atleast) is your position. Your last to act. That is usually a good thing, but in this case it makes it nearly impossible for you to protect your hand and get players out. If we were BB with this hand, I pop this all day. But I dont like the move last to act.

Therefore, if a non Q,J or club falls, we put on the pressure, and if one of those do fall, we can get out safley only putting in one small bet on the flop.

Playing this way can also diguise your hand when the board pairs and a made flush/straight can not put you on a full boat.

Jehaim · #10 01-05-2006, 10:57 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB
================================================== ==========

Should I have played any street differently?