5/10 TP

[James.]

game type fellas. sometimes you can profitably raise KJs UTG and others its a limp and others still it is a fold. as played i would fold to the turn 3 bet.

[WalkAmongUs]

what type of game would you fold KJs UTG?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
what type of game would you fold KJs UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

it wouldn't be a typical small stakes game. but you must realize hand values change according to the hand selection of your opponents. and you also need to understand a hand may be a play sometimes and a fold others. also it may be a limp some % of the time and a raise some other %. poker is not a game of absolute rules. you must adapt and change as variables of the game dicate.

[WalkAmongUs]

i understand all of this very well. i'm just having trouble envisioning a real game where KJs is a correct fold UTG.

a super tight game where everyone plays only the top 10% of hands?

[James.]

i don't mean it is "always" a fold. there are some games where it is sometimes a fold. that is what i mean.

[KEW]

[ QUOTE ]
i understand all of this very well. i'm just having trouble envisioning a real game where KJs is a correct fold UTG.

a super tight game where everyone plays only the top 10% of hands?

[/ QUOTE ]


The only LIMIT game condition I can think of that I would consider folding KJs UTG is when the majority of the hands are going to 3 or more bets pre flop...But even in this type game I would be more likely to raise then fold as the freguent raising would indicate a loose maniacal game in which KJs would perform very well and be paid off handsomely when you do hit the flop hard...

[Los Feliz Slim]

My most common play with KJs UTG is limping, followed closely by raising, followed by folding. Part of the problem with limping, obviously, is that SB and BB get to play crap like K7, K5, K3, 75, 73, and 64. In this hand I fold to the 3-bet on the turn.

[W. Deranged]

1. Anyone folding KJs UTG is making a large error. I raise, but calling is only very slightly worse and it's not that big a deal.

2. If you are raising this turn, it should be with the intent of folding to a three-bet. Spewing four bets to get to a showdown with little odds to improve and TP3K is not going to be good. If you are not comfortable folding to a three-bet, why not call down? You need to realize that if he's three-betting the turn he's got you beat basically all the time unless he's a maniac. If he's so laggy you can't handle folding to a three-bet, call down.

[James.]

hey deranged,

IMO most preflop decisions cost just a bit of expectation either way and i don't see how a "large" error can occur by folding marginal hands OOP in a tough, tight-aggressive game. that said, i don't fold KJs in most any game i play b/c of game selection and the general softness of the limit i play. it is sometimes a raise and sometimes a limp. i was the one that originally mentioned folding as an option in particularly tough games and people found it to be unfathomable to consider. while it was a fairly insignificant detail in my post it got alot more attention than it probably warranted. i think the focus on this hand needs to be the turn play and given the course of action chosen the fact that when 3 bet we can't go to showdown. 4 big bets on the late streets with TPMK is too much in this situation.

[KnightEnder]

I bet he showed you 8-9 Spades? Though 4-6 Spades would have explained the raises on the turn.

KE