JTs settle a disagreement with DeathDonkey

[stoxtrader]

I like a call here.

[milesdyson]

i call, and one reason i havent really seen mentioned is that i dont want to give SB a chance to 3-bet the flop. well i guess westley mentioned it but he said its not that bad. i disagree and think its happening pretty often given that he raised after the world limped to him.

[oreopimp]

Id probably call too, its almost borderline to where I raise, but Id really like 1 to 2 more players in before I prefer raising.

[Terrabon98]

I raise...mostly because I don't think SB will lead again on the turn if a face card or spade drops, or maybe even if a safe card falls. It may even get checked to you on the turn (worst-case), but more likely someone in the middle will bet, and if you raise, you're making SB and BB, who both likely have playable hands, face two big bets cold.

I'd rather just raise the flop and get more bets in when I have high equity

[Jeffage]

I raise this all day, every day.

Jeff

[MacGuyV]

I'm grunching here but the crux of the matter to me is how often you think these players in the middle are going to call two back to them because SB is going to 3bet like always.

[Shillx]

Meh I'd call. Free card plays lose a lot of their luster in aggressive games which I'm assuming this is. Don't really hate a raise but I would probably just call with just 2 callers in the middle.

Lemme guess, Donkey says to raise it? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I just hate getting 3-bet in this spot. It would be a disaster if we have to play HU with 9 wins.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
1) As pots become larger it becomes more and more valuable to take "free" (why don't we call them cheap?) cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

explain this.

[AlwaysWrong]

[ QUOTE ]

1) As pots become larger it becomes more and more valuable to take "free" (why don't we call them cheap?) cards. This pot is already a pretty fair size.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make sense. The value of a free card decreases with every person in the pot and with the number of outs you have. With many people in the pot and lots of outs, the value of a free card is pretty low.

Raise now or call.. doesn't matter much. There are 13 sb in the pot. Something like 5-6 of those are "yours". A raise now makes you something like 1.5sb. Waiting to raise, not sure, but it's not much more or less than this. Most of the money you'll make this hand is already in the pot.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

I rarely donkquote, but:

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the hero may still make more money by raising the flop, since there is no guarantee that the flop bettor or two callers will call the turn if a spade hits, but they do have their money in right now on the flop, so take their money while you still have a chance, and if you hit your flush, you may induce one or more of them to call you down drawing dead becuz you made the pot even bigger by raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]