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#1
10-23-2006, 07:00 AM
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Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players I have been involved in quite a few of these types of hands recently and never really know if my line is good. No reads on villain but i'm not so much concerned about his action. I'm more concerned about finding out if its right to raise non nut flush draws out of position or what is the best strategy? Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks. Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5BB, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls. River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7BB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds. 
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#2
10-23-2006, 07:48 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
<-- new player
I'd not raise on this flop, I'd just call everything down till I hit my card. With only 3 players left after the button folds, I don't think you will get enough pot odds if you raise.
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#3
10-23-2006, 07:50 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
dont CR the flop after Button folds since you dont want MP3 to get blown away by a BB 3bet...also you wont get a free card often due to being OOP
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#4
10-23-2006, 08:21 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
pot is too small and there arnt enough players for this to be a good c/r.
get a couple more in there and its a goer. dont be worried that its not the nut flush draw. with the king out there its second nuts, and you wont often be beaten when you make it. its close, i would go for it if button called the flop. aussie, i wouldnt worry too much about bb 3-betting and cutting out the field. a) especially at the micros, not many ppl will fold even for two after calling one on the flop b) if the bb had something worth 3-betting with a king he probably would have jacked it pf. i.e. i dont think there are many hands that will 3-bet you here that wouldnt raise pf. probably just the low sets and random 2p hands.
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#5
10-23-2006, 08:43 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
[ QUOTE ]
its close, i would go for it if button called the flop. aussie, i wouldnt worry too much about bb 3-betting and cutting out the field. [/ QUOTE ] maybe so but by the time its back our our hero on the flop it is now 3 way so as we all know, its not really for value also since we have relative position on BB we will be in a much better postion to CR the turn/river if/when we spike the flush meh, you already agreed the CR aint so flash so ill stop typing...
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#7
10-23-2006, 08:50 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
[ QUOTE ]
maybe so but by the time its back our our hero on the flop it is now 3 way so as we all know, its not really for value [/ QUOTE ] With more callers, I pump smaller flush draws too.
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#8
10-23-2006, 10:06 AM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] its close, i would go for it if button called the flop. aussie, i wouldnt worry too much about bb 3-betting and cutting out the field. [/ QUOTE ] maybe so but by the time its back our our hero on the flop it is now 3 way so as we all know, its not really for value also since we have relative position on BB we will be in a much better postion to CR the turn/river if/when we spike the flush meh, you already agreed the CR aint so flash so ill stop typing... [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't go for a check raise in that spot. halpgr: We would have the odds to go for the flush on the turn even if we didn't raise. I'm not sure about your logic either. I wouldn't raise one street without equity just to give me odds on a following street. My raise would either have to be for equity or increase my equity enough by folding others to make it worth it. ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S: I agree with your analysis, but if we assume our Q will be good 25% of the time when we hit, then raising the flop probably isn't -EV.
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#9
10-23-2006, 02:25 PM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
I'm betting out instead. This flop is ragged and someone without a K will probably fold. If I don't get too many callers (>2) I fire again on the turn. I don't think u have an equity edge 3-handed with no OC's. And ur line screams FD.
Edit: The main problem with a CR/check line is that it gives u zero chance of winning UI. The second problem is that u don't have an equity edge. The third problem is that u give ur hand away.
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#10
10-23-2006, 02:56 PM
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Re: Pumping Non Nut Flush draws - Out of Postion
[ QUOTE ]
This flop is ragged and someone without a K will probably fold. [/ QUOTE ] I'd only be playing this hand OOP if I'm a blind, and if so I'm betting out about 70% of the time. I would try and drive out the players with 2nd/3rd pair (including small pockets). If somebody raises, then I would call but check-fold on the turn if I don't hit the flush. But then again, I suck.
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