Live tourney,can I possibly fold any of these??

[atcjhall]

Hand 1. Fold. KK doesn't play well 4 handed. OR played this like AA, and he pushed with a reraise and 2 cold calls after his raise...he has AA. MP called 1/3 of his chips so he's not leaving and SB gets 3.5:1 if you call, so he's staying.

Hand 2. Fold. Your read is he has a real hand, and you don't. Plus, he's made it past the blinds so he's not totally desperate yet, and he doesn't fear the BB. Save your 12k chips for a better spot. If not a fold, I like an all-in instead of the raise from the CO here. You get fold equity and if you're called you have some outs.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Fold. KK doesn't play well 4 handed. OR played this like AA, and he pushed with a reraise and 2 cold calls after his raise...he has AA. MP called 1/3 of his chips so he's not leaving and SB gets 3.5:1 if you call, so he's staying.


[/ QUOTE ]

Worst..advice..ever. Seriously, is this a joke? It sounds like you are saying "even if one of them doesn't have AA, you should still fold" which is really really bad advice. In a $100 tournament you will see AK, AQ, JJ, QQ, and maybe some more pairs here. Yeah, he'll have AA sometimes, c'est la vie.

[bonsaltron]

Hand 1: I can't fold KK preflop in tournaments. Harrington goes into it in HOH and I agree: I'm just not savy enought to fold KK preflop, even if I'm almost positive I'm up agaisnt AA. There are just to many times the guy will turn up AK or QQ to make it a profitable laydown. With 1/6 of your stack in the middle plus so much probable dead money (the trailing callers) it is just too sweet to let go IMO.

Hand 2: Assuming there's no antes, it's 2:1 pot odds. If you lose your M ~ 3. If you muck your M ~ 8 (or about ~12000). That's too durastic a differenct to gamble with KJ for pot odd's sake IMO. Muck.

[smittyuiop]

Hand 1: Don't fold. You're ahead of his range which does include AA but also AKs, QQ, maybe JJ. Plus I would think at least one of the cold callers has something like AQ making it less likely he has aces. I wouldn't completely discredit the possiblity that one of the cold callers (esp the 1st one) could have aces, but I still get it in with this much money in the pot already.

Hand 2: How often have you been raising preflop? And has it always been to 3x? If you haven't been raising that often I doubt it is a resteal and you are looking bad against his legitimate range. His tanking could be a little hollywood or it could be tough decision with something like 44 or A8, but this is a marginal situation at best and it sounded like you thought you were one of the better players so I would avoid it. With a hand like KJ that plays decent after the flop I dont' mind a smaller raise. Your 3k raise will either induce folds or an all in. 2k could look scary, almost as likely to take down blinds since people can't just call off that much of their stack, and you lose less when shoved on and can easily get away without pot committing yourself to a marginal situation.

[kranken]

Easy call with KK in my opinion, but then I never ever managed to lay down Aces or Kings.

[SuperUberBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Fold. KK doesn't play well 4 handed. OR played this like AA, and he pushed with a reraise and 2 cold calls after his raise...he has AA. MP called 1/3 of his chips so he's not leaving and SB gets 3.5:1 if you call, so he's staying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kill yourself.

Folding is not an option.

Hand 2: Call. SB's range is way, way wide here. You're making what he probably perceives as a steal play, so he isn't giving you credit for a hand. So he's moving in with a lot of hands here. I just pray that I'm in a race and call.

[Shocker101]

Fold and wait for Aces and pray you have chips when u get them.

[BarryLyndon]

Kenny7 (and some of the rest of you guys for that matter):

Stop concentrating on whether to fold KK preflop and try to get some better questions for yourself to learn. In the general scheme of things, how is learning when to fold KK preflop going to help your game? Here's a hint - it won't. In fact, if you start thinking about folding KK preflop, you are going to start to fold other hands incorrectly as well.

The last time I had KK preflop in a tourney, which was a [censored] week and a half ago, this is what happened. Blinds are 20/40, 1500 effective stacks:

Folds to MP1 who limps, Hero has KK in MP2 and raises to 160, CO calls, BB re-raises to 550, MP1 folds, "oh, gasp, what does BB have, must be AA given the action," Hero pushes AI, folds to BB who calls and shows 1010.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
Folds to MP1 who limps, Hero has KK in MP2 and raises to 160, CO calls, BB re-raises to 550, MP1 folds, "oh, gasp, what does BB have, must be AA given the action," Hero pushes AI, folds to BB who calls and shows 1010.

[/ QUOTE ]
The number of stories resembling this compared to the number of stories that end: "BB turns over AA", is about 10 to 1 in my humble estimation.

[kenny7]

First of all,thanks for all the replies.

No,I didn't fold KK here,and honestly don't think I ever will.The reason for posting this hand was that wanted to get fellow 2+2'ers view on if it is possible to do so. I did think for a minute or so,simply because I honestly didn't think he could make that move with anything but AA-QQ. My reasoning was that with me rr in early position,surely he had to put me on a big hand.

When I called,he told me he knew I had a big hand,but he pushed,hoping his hand was good.He had JJ btw.

Hand 2 I called as well,I appreciate all the responses,I do have big problems in situations like this.I do get good odds to call,but I'm pretty much putting my tournament life at risk with a hand I know has to be behind and could easily be dominated.I see opinions differ on if it's a call or a fold,I guess I'm not the only one that struggles here.