30/60 QTs

[jason_t]

The responses to this thread were pretty much what I expected them to be. I'm quite frustrated by that.

The Button had 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and UTG's Q-high took the pot. I think both players played this hand pretty thoughtfully. Dean pretty much nailed what I think that UTG must have been thinking during the hand; I think he played the hand brilliantly. The only problem I have is that the Button, while clearly reading UTG's hand for what it was, spewed chips into what was a tiny pot and then put himself into a spot on the river where he was getting sufficient odds to try bluffing one more time. So on the turn the pot was 3.5 BB and including the 3 BB that UTG put into the pot on the turn he spent 4 BB trying to win those 6.5 BB. That's quite an expensive proposition, especially since UTG's check/raise says either "I slowplayed a monster" or "I know you're full of [censored]." Button should have given up to the turn check/raise but his line of thought on UTG's hand was certainly clairivoyant. He made the right read but acting on it just wasn't worth it. Button was trying too hard to win this pot. We shouldn't forget our goal is to win money, not pots. Sometimes that means just letting go in spots like this even if we're dead certain that our opponent has nothing too.

[chisness]

jason,

What if button just calls cr on turn? Hero would then bet riv? Would a raise here work?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
jason,

What if button just calls cr on turn? Hero would then bet riv? Would a raise here work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant, imo.

[dtown_poker]

[ QUOTE ]
The responses to this thread were pretty much what I expected them to be. I'm quite frustrated by that.

The Button had 6 9 and UTG's Q-high took the pot. I think both players played this hand pretty thoughtfully. Dean pretty much nailed what I think that UTG must have been thinking during the hand; I think he played the hand brilliantly. The only problem I have is that the Button, while clearly reading UTG's hand for what it was, spewed chips into what was a tiny pot and then put himself into a spot on the river where he was getting sufficient odds to try bluffing one more time. So on the turn the pot was 3.5 BB and including the 3 BB that UTG put into the pot on the turn he spent 4 BB trying to win those 6.5 BB. That's quite an expensive proposition, especially since UTG's check/raise says either "I slowplayed a monster" or "I know you're full of [censored]." Button should have given up to the turn check/raise but his line of thought on UTG's hand was certainly clairivoyant. He made the right read but acting on it just wasn't worth it. Button was trying too hard to win this pot. We shouldn't forget our goal is to win money, not pots. Sometimes that means just letting go in spots like this even if we're dead certain that our opponent has nothing too.


[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of result, hero loses big money in the long run by playing this way.

[DeathDonkey]

So Jason had to twist some details to make this hand postable, but it hardly matters. I was the button and I played this hand poorly. I should have bet the flop and since I didn't I should have just not tried to make a play for such a small pot. But when the UTG player checkraised the turn I think I played the hand great. I did not bet the river because the river was a heart, I checked behind and he won with a flush. I told him I had Ace high. His turn checkraise is abysmal.

-DeathDonkey

[flawless_victory]

if the river was not a heart u wouldve won this pot.

[DeathDonkey]

I know!! I cried a little.

-DeathDonkey

[jskills]

[ QUOTE ]
So Jason had to twist some details to make this hand postable, but it hardly matters. I was the button and I played this hand poorly. I should have bet the flop and since I didn't I should have just not tried to make a play for such a small pot. But when the UTG player checkraised the turn I think I played the hand great. I did not bet the river because the river was a heart, I checked behind and he won with a flush. I told him I had Ace high. His turn checkraise is abysmal.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a second, but Jason said:

[ QUOTE ]

The Button had 6 9 and UTG's Q-high took the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the "twisting of details" when it comes to announcing the results. Typically, we don't post results, unless there is a very compelling reason after a full discussion has ensued (or there is some strong entertainment value).

I think this is a hand where results did seem appropriate to post, but I'm confused as to why we're hearing to different sets of results - one where hero calls with Q high on the river and wins and then the other were hero makes a flush and checks (or whiffs on a check raise attempt).

FWIW - I feel compelled to point out that I (as probably many here) greatly value Jason's posts, and I can understand changing the river card to spark more of a debate I suppose, but why falsify the results of a hand? Surely there is no need to "prove" anything to anyone here is there? The analysis of the play up until the river was pretty interesting on its own, no?

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
The responses to this thread were pretty much what I expected them to be. I'm quite frustrated by that.

The Button had 6 9 and UTG's Q-high took the pot. I think both players played this hand pretty thoughtfully

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So Jason had to twist some details to make this hand postable, but it hardly matters. I was the button and I played this hand poorly. I should have bet the flop and since I didn't I should have just not tried to make a play for such a small pot. But when the UTG player checkraised the turn I think I played the hand great. I did not bet the river because the river was a heart, I checked behind and he won with a flush. I told him I had Ace high. His turn checkraise is abysmal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I go away to FW's for a couple of days and come back to fine out this thread has taken a strange twist.

This is just great. You think both players played the hand thoughtfully, then we find out that you made up the river action and a button hand that UTG could beat. Do you really think that it is highly likely that DD would have bet the turn with total dust, knowing that in a game like this other A's or PP's better than 4's will likely call, given the action so far?

[CardSharpCook]

Button is usually unpaired when he didn't bet the flop and the turn pairs the board. Especially when it is a TAG on the button. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]LOVE[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the Q-high call on the river and am saddened that this is not what actually happened.

Death, while UTG may have been a donkey, in my opinion, he stumbled on to a correct line against a player like you (or myself) given the action. He DOES get better hands to fold. Namely, king-high. And occasionally some opponents will fold a PP or an ace. Additionally, a river ace or king would split the pot. A call-down line is also ok for him.