Hand against DeathDonkey

[jason_t]

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imo if you are calling the river, you are beat.

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What does he have? I don't think Chris bluffs all that often, but I really don't think he has a pair very often given his flop/turn play. So I felt like the river was a tossup but since I couldn't put him on many pairs I liked a check better.

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i really dont know what he has, but i think he does NOT have an unimproved big ace. maybe a hand like A5s if you are lucky. maybe he has AA-KK and is just wating to bang you on the river. i dunno. i just feel like if you are going to put a bet into the pot on the river, the one that is placed has a greater expectation than one that is called. but i play bad. and i also 3bet this pf to get his donkeyass HU.

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What the hell are you hoping he'd call a river bet with?

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i never said i'd bet the river, just that IMO if he bets it, you're done.

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I never said I'd check/call, just that if you bet and are called you're done.

[PokerBob]

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imo if you are calling the river, you are beat.

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What does he have? I don't think Chris bluffs all that often, but I really don't think he has a pair very often given his flop/turn play. So I felt like the river was a tossup but since I couldn't put him on many pairs I liked a check better.

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i really dont know what he has, but i think he does NOT have an unimproved big ace. maybe a hand like A5s if you are lucky. maybe he has AA-KK and is just wating to bang you on the river. i dunno. i just feel like if you are going to put a bet into the pot on the river, the one that is placed has a greater expectation than one that is called. but i play bad. and i also 3bet this pf to get his donkeyass HU.

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What the hell are you hoping he'd call a river bet with?

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i never said i'd bet the river, just that IMO if he bets it, you're done.

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I never said I'd check/call, just that if you bet and are called you're done.

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ok. based on the way DD played the hand, he either has us destroyed, or he just made a hideous river bet. IMO he has us beat.

[jason_t]

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i never said i'd bet the river, just that IMO if he bets it, you're done.

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I never said I'd check/call, just that if you bet and are called you're done.

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ok. based on the way DD played the hand, he either has us destroyed, or he just made a hideous river bet. IMO he has us beat.

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What hand has Hero beat that doesn't give more action sooner?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

some points:

1. u bet, he calls, u lose.

2. u bet, he folds, u win.

3. u check. he bets, u lose sometimes.

4. u check, he checks, u win always.

[PokerBob]

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i never said i'd bet the river, just that IMO if he bets it, you're done.

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I never said I'd check/call, just that if you bet and are called you're done.

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ok. based on the way DD played the hand, he either has us destroyed, or he just made a hideous river bet. IMO he has us beat.

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What hand has Hero beat that doesn't give more action sooner?

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a very brilliantly and slyly played AA-KK. i agree that nothing else makes any sense.

[PokerBob]

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some points:

3. u check. he bets, u lose sometimes.



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do you think it is "only" sometimes? imo Entity has held up a sign that has said "i am seeing a showdown", so a river bet from DD seems foolish unless he has Entity beat.

[cjm8301]

I like your line here Entity, there was some talk of betting the river here, but I think (given DeathDonkey's description) would be a mistake. I don't think you can get away from this once a 9 hits on the river.

[DMBFan23]

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imo if you are calling the river, you are beat.

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What does he have? I don't think Chris bluffs all that often, but I really don't think he has a pair very often given his flop/turn play. So I felt like the river was a tossup but since I couldn't put him on many pairs I liked a check better.

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I like checking way better than betting, but I wonder about calling.

couldnt he easily have a pair, something like A9s or even A8s/87s? the important thing is what he puts you on. when you c/r the flop, you have a pair+ or maybe an OESD. even if A high might be in your checkraising range (shouldnt be IMO against his MP1 open, maybe against his button open) it wouldnt be in your cool-calling range PF. when the T hits, he's gotta figure you for SOME kind of pair - it'd be easy for you to have something like T9s, JTs, etc - and if you DID have an OESD on the flop, it paired on the turn or improved to a straight...so he has to call the turn knowing you have at least a pair. he'd fold AK/KQ at this point (I hope) and probably raise an overpair either on the flop or turn, so that's out most of the time (the trend lately hasn't been to wait till the river, not sure if that's how DD plays). I think he would have to release a pocket pair like 66-44 to a turn bet on that board.

that leaves his turn calling range as something like AJ-KJ for hands you beat, and suited connectors that have a pair+ (87s, JTs, etc) as hands that have you beaten. if he would raise the turn even with these weaker pairs then it makes your river play a much easier check-call, but if he'd call his pairs on the turn (with outs, afraid of a 3-bet, wants to showdown cheap, wants to string you along, any number of reasons...) I always seem to favor check-folding in spots like these cause 2+2ers always expect 2+2ers to pay off everything

EDIT: the only thing that made me hesitate to post is the ever present question "what else might rob play this way" to which I have no answer

[DeathDonkey]

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he either has us destroyed, or he just made a hideous river bet.

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I don't want to give any results yet as its a good thread IMO, but these can't both be true Bob. If it's so obvious Entity is destroyed here, then it's the perfect time for a bluff. Just reading this thread a bluff can't possibly be hideous since nobody thinks I could bluff there.

-DeathDonkey

[lil feller]

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he either has us destroyed, or he just made a hideous river bet.

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I don't want to give any results yet as its a good thread IMO, but these can't both be true Bob. If it's so obvious Entity is destroyed here, then it's the perfect time for a bluff. Just reading this thread a bluff can't possibly be hideous since nobody thinks I could bluff there.

-DeathDonkey

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You tricky multi-level thinking little donkey you, how dare you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously though DD brings up a great point, if he knows who villian is, he'd know that villian would never expect him to bluff here, when Entity has (as others have noted) said he wants to showdown. That river check is definately a defensive check. Against most players i agree a c/f is better, but against a thinker who can be several steps ahead, a c/c has a lot of merit.

lf