Do most .5/1 players fold Aces here?

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
It is very hard to make NL100 people to fold aces. If you are sure villain is a very good player that can lay down AA, you have to do these:


3. You push on turn your remaining $83 (assuming you only have $100 to start) into the $34.5 pot. Even better if you have $170 to start, just push the remaining $153 onto the $34.5 pot. This would probably make him lay down AA since the flop is very scary and he is not commited yet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Betting $153 to win a $34.5 pot on a stone bluff seems absurd to me given the risk/reward ratio. It's not like I know he has aces. If I had a $170 stack, I would have bet the same 2/3 of the pot that I did with my stack. I don't see why the villain would be less likely to call a overbet, since if I have a straight, he would be drawing dead and forced to call a very large bet on the river.

Of course, having a larger stack size would have given me much better options on the river.

[bhudson]

If you absolutely MUST bluff with short stacks here, raise more on the flop, push the turn. I think the call preflop is fine assuming you are going to check-fold the flop, otherwise reraise. You can call or fold to a push, it doesn't matter - it's about neutral EV either way.

[Proofrock]

Yes, you are completely nuts to try this bluff. You don't have enough chips for it to work, as you can't make the pot big enough while at the same time leaving enough behind for a sizeable river bluff.

You don't give much of a read and it's a small sample size, but there are better ways to play AKo OOP vs. a 30/20 Villain when you have 58BB to start the hand.

Being a 30/20 LAG, that board could easily have hit him pretty well, and after he calls the flop check-raise (which is too small) you should be done with the hand.

FWIW, your line would be great if you actually wanted a call.

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you are completely nuts to try this bluff. You don't have enough chips for it to work, as you can't make the pot big enough while at the same time leaving enough behind for a sizeable river bluff.

You don't give much of a read and it's a small sample size, but there are better ways to play AKo OOP vs. a 30/20 Villain when you have 58BB to start the hand.

Being a 30/20 LAG, that board could easily have hit him pretty well, and after he calls the flop check-raise (which is too small) you should be done with the hand.

FWIW, your line would be great if you actually wanted a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was trying to make it look like I really wanted a call. I've always been under the impression that if you are trying to bluff, you should play the hand as if you had the hand you are representing. Also, I wasn't ready to peg the player as a LAG just because he has raised 4 out of 20 hands.

BTW, I'm used to playing NL in live games (where the buy-ins are about 50BBs) and Limit online...I've just started trying to play NL online. I immediately found the online NL players to be much more weak-tight than 1/2 casino players. I would have never tried this play in a 1/2 live game, but of course, in a 1/2 live game, there would be five players in this pot. That's why I framed the question the way I did. I certainly would have folded the turn if I were in Villain's position, and thought most decent players would as well.

[Cue-Ball 66]

While the turn was bad, atleast you had a chance of bluffing him out. By the river, when nothing had changed and you fired just 20 more, you were just setting that $20 on fire.

[NickMPK]

BTW, can someone give me the argument FOR reraising preflop here...it seems like a pretty fundamental question.

As I see it, if I reraise (to ~$15) and Villain folds, I win a small pot.
If I reraise and Villain pushes, I am probably $15 -EV whether I call or fold.
If I reraise and Villain calls, I flop TPTK about 1/3 of the time:
- If I flop TPTK, I push the flop and usually win $15; sometimes I win $60 and rarely I lose $60.
- If I don't flop TPTK, I think I am forced to check-fold, right?...in which case I have lost $15. Any bet basically wins me $15 about half the time and loses me $60 half the time.

If I just call, I can win a decent pot when I flop I TPTK by check-raising the flop, and can try to judge the flop for bluffing opportunities and sometimes win without flopping a pair.

BTW, if I do flop TPTK, I think I am losing my entire stack in cases where the Villain has AA whether I reraise preflop or not. I can't away from that with only 60BBs.

[pho75]

"Am I completely nuts to try this bluff?"

Yes.

[amoeba]

don't bluff with short stack.

[Nielsio]

flop: yuk
turn: yukk
river: lol

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, can someone give me the argument FOR reraising preflop here...it seems like a pretty fundamental question.

As I see it, if I reraise (to ~$15) and Villain folds, I win a small pot.
If I reraise and Villain pushes, I am probably $15 -EV whether I call or fold.
If I reraise and Villain calls, I flop TPTK about 1/3 of the time:
- If I flop TPTK, I push the flop and usually win $15; sometimes I win $60 and rarely I lose $60.
- If I don't flop TPTK, I think I am forced to check-fold, right?...in which case I have lost $15. Any bet basically wins me $15 about half the time and loses me $60 half the time.

If I just call, I can win a decent pot when I flop I TPTK by check-raising the flop, and can try to judge the flop for bluffing opportunities and sometimes win without flopping a pair.

BTW, if I do flop TPTK, I think I am losing my entire stack in cases where the Villain has AA whether I reraise preflop or not. I can't away from that with only 60BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you miss you can still steal the pot with a c-bet, if he pushes and you call you are about neutral EV against his range. If you miss, you c-bet AND he pushes than your done...

Oh and yeah TPTK is the nutzzz with a 58 bb stack (exceptions etc. blah blah), just reload and play some real poker. Not to mention that villain will have trash that you are owning way more often than AA in these spots.