Hand (large pot)

[krishan]

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yeah i know. i was just asking. it's kind of a rare thing. haven't seen you post in this forum for a long time.

i don't see many hands that are willing to 3-bet that flop and continue to lead into a field of 4 when an A falls. you're in trouble IMO.

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I'm a teacher and I have time on my hands during the school day to post a lot. During the summer I play much more and can only keep up with a couple forums.

Krishan

[krishan]

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Hm. No flop 3-bet? Were you planning on raising a turn blank?

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Maybe, what do you think?

Krishan

[@bsolute_luck]

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Hm. No flop 3-bet? Were you planning on raising a turn blank?

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i think we have to consider maybe stake limits in this one. 5/10 isn't like calling .5/1. and we have a field of 4 ALL still in the hand after cold calling that flop.

[MrWookie]

I think KK and QQ could still be included in villains range of hands, but so should AJ, KQ, 88, and the rare JJ or TT. Any A, K, Q, 9, 8, and maybe a club on the river really ruins your day. That's 18 cards minimum, plus 3 more outs worth of clubs you might give your opponents. If you're ahead, you're only a slight favorite to win the hand. If you're behind, you're drawing to 2-4 outs, and if it's 2, you're not sure which 2 are good. I think your outs combined with the chance you're ahead make this a call, and pray for the 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fall.

And I think I 3bet the flop.

[krishan]

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And I think I 3bet the flop.

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Boo. Does a flop 3-bet protect my hand? Are there a lot of turn cards that destroy my hand? Will my equity be higher on the turn if a blank comes? Will I be well position to take advantage of a turn blank?

Krishan

[SlantNGo]

Flop: Good. Raise a turn undercard.
Turn: Wow, what a shitty card... we have 4 outs to a boat against a straight, but if SB has what he is representing (two pair), we probably have only 2 outs to beat him. This pot is so big though, that I call, and call again on a river blank. A raise here is just throwing away money.

[cmwck]

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And I think I 3bet the flop.

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Boo. Does a flop 3-bet protect my hand? Are there a lot of turn cards that destroy my hand? Will my equity be higher on the turn if a blank comes? Will I be well position to take advantage of a turn blank?

Krishan

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I suppose a flop raise doesn't do much in the way of hand protection. SB probably won't fold getting at least 11:1 if we 3-bet. On the turn we don't want to see: a 9, a 7, a K, a Q, an A, or an 8. Any of those could give someone a straight or a higher two pair.

So our equity shoots way up on the turn, assuming everyone is cold calling with a decent draw.

[krishan]

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Turn: Wow, what a shitty card...

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Is it really? I mean I'd define a shitty turn card as one that comes two bets to me on the turn. So despite it not being very good, it's not aweful. SB could have AJ, KQ or AA and that turn made his day but should I be worried about the callers?

Krishan

[SlantNGo]

A 7,9, or T is worse for sure, but that Ace is the next worst card. If it came two cold to you, yes, it's very shitty and fold-worthy. I'm not worried about the callers. At least two of them are probably drawing to some piece of the straight, so their outs overlap.

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Turn: Wow, what a shitty card...

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Is it really? I mean I'd define a shitty turn card as one that comes two bets to me on the turn. So despite it not being very good, it's not aweful. SB could have AJ, KQ or AA and that turn made his day but should I be worried about the callers?

Krishan

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[Aaron W.]

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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero ...

And the questions is in addition to the turn action, did my hand get worse or better on the turn? And did I make a mistake on the flop?

Krishan

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I think I raise here. I'm not convinced that you're behind because the only hands that are helped by the ace (helped = made a stronger hand than yours, not picking up a draw) are AA, KQ, AJ, AT, A8. I don't think you were chasing on the flop (and I like the wait-for-the-turn call being last to act), so only a few hands actually improved with the ace.

However, it's a scary card for you because it has given tons of redraws to all sorts of hands. AK has a two pair redraw, any king or queen picked up a gutshot. And given a reasonable set of preflop raising hands from SB, I think he has one of those hands that picked up a draw against you. Somebody might have picked up two draws on that turn, if they held two clubs.

What about the donks in the middle? I would imagine they have either a nine or a painted card. Either way, I don't think they have you beat.

A raise here for value, even with lots of players drawing against you is a good play. I think you've got the best hand and let the river bring whatever it brings. I think I would squeeze a river value bet on any brick if it gets checked to me. Too many worse hands will call because the pot is big and their hands are reasonable.