Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[Malificent]

PA Hud basically is the online equivalent of live tells and reads. You can't see your opponent's face and body language online, so you look at the PT stats you have as an alternative. Noone is claiming it is unethical to make reads based on live tells, so why should PT/PA HUD be any different?

[ginko]

I use PokerTracker to keep info on tax's, when I get audited for having a Neteller bank account, I can show proof.

However I do agree that things PaHUD might be on the cheating side. Personally I think PaHUD makes players worst and doesnt really even give them that much of an edge. Thats why I quit using it.

[LImitPlayer]

So, How much money did you lose?

[bulldawgblue]

I think the fact that everyone is having an ethics debate over gambling (not in societal sense) is such a waste of time. Its like setting a code of conduct for drug dealers. In the end it doesn't matter what is ethical or unethical. What matters is that your are playing a game. The game being ONLINE poker (not to be confused with live poker). The object of this game is for player to make as much money as possible; all the while playing within certain parameters which have been pre-deteremined for everyone. These parameters are not determined by the players themselves, society as a whole, the bible, or your own moral f'n fortitude. They are determined by the service under which you CHOOSE to play this game. (PARTYPOKER!) Do I think PokerTracker is ethical? No, but who cares. I'm not running for mayor, I'm don't owe anyone anything, I do not have a duty of care to employees, clients, or the public as a normal business would. I'm GAMBLING. I'm trying to make money, we all are. I'm going to everything with the set parameters to increase my chance at doing so. Sadly, it comes down to this: the only reason that PT is ok to use and bots are not is because PARTY says so. And thats all anyone needs to know.

--bdb

[Blowup Doll]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone cannot use it.

Not only does it costs $55 (or whatever) for the software, but you have to know about it and have some expertise in using it to benefit from it.

Someone who deposits $200 at Party to try out the .5/1 tables cannot reasonably buy this software.

[/ QUOTE ]
????? They have $200 but can't use $55 of it on software? Are you kidding me??

[Blowup Doll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
um, if you cant afford $55, then how can you afford $200, when it is almost a sure thing you will lose that money within a month or so?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, it's not a question of "afford". If your poker bankroll is $200 and you are playing .5/1 and you give up 55 big bets on software you have greatly increased your risk of ruin even if the software improves your win rate.



[/ QUOTE ]
Then start at a smaller limit!

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PT doesn't make any decisions for you. Poker bots do. Is this distinction really that hard for you to make?

[/ QUOTE ]
No but you don't understand. Not EVERYONE uses PT. Some people don't know about it. Others can't afford it.

Damn, gotta get rid of my independent music collection now. And my car. [censored]!

[/ QUOTE ]
So, an advantage in itself doesn't mean it is an unfair advantage.

My point is that the transition from having numbers of what a person has done in the past and translating that into how you play against that player is HUGE. People here are acting like it is the same thing. Hell, you post a hand with stats and you are most likely going to get 4-5 conflicting arguments on what you should have done.

[OneTwoThreeROBOT]

MNpoker has said it before. Maybe this is more clear:

Poker sites control the game. They are in charge of creating the rules.

You, the poker player, are in charge of finding a site with rules you can live with and obey. If you break these rules, you are cheating.

Cheating is unethical.

Party says PT is okay. Therefore it is not illegal or unethical to use at Party.

People are obfuscating this argument by bringing in Bots (which are unethical because they break the rules and for NO OTHER REASON), and notepads in casinos, and a bunch of other things. It's really much simpler than that.

I can't make it any clearer if this doesn't work.

[betadecay]

obfuscating! my new favorite word!

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
MNpoker has said it before. Maybe this is more clear:

Poker sites control the game. They are in charge of creating the rules.

You, the poker player, are in charge of finding a site with rules you can live with and obey. If you break these rules, you are cheating.

Cheating is unethical.

Party says PT is okay. Therefore it is not illegal or unethical to use at Party.

People are obfuscating this argument by bringing in Bots (which are unethical because they break the rules and for NO OTHER REASON), and notepads in casinos, and a bunch of other things. It's really much simpler than that.

I can't make it any clearer if this doesn't work.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't make this much clearer:

ethics =/ rules.