Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[betadecay]

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I said it, and I'll keep saying it. I think PT is unfair based on the fact that it's giving you information that you should be gathering yourself based upon play. A lot of people turn their heads the other way when people bring up the ethics of PT on the boards. As for internet poker, I love it [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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People keep saying this? how is this unfair if EVERYONE is allowed to use it? This makes no sense to me and I don't understand how people can think this way.

[e_phemeral]

Internet poker is not B&M poker, it's internet poker. The medium through which the game is played necessarily makes it a different game than B&M poker. There are positives and negatives (in my opinion, more negatives than positives). I think there is much more collusion and chicanery in online poker than in B&M poker, although even in B&M poker games I have witnessed collusion first hand.

Maybe OP just does not like the game of internet poker and should stick to live poker.

[Blowup Doll]

Anyone can use PT or other software. Anyone can stop playing at tables where they are used.

[Gregatron]

Great point. Seriously you have changed my mind totally. Not only will I stop using PT and PAHUD, but I just realized I have been reading HEPFAP for the umpteenth time. After all, this logic:
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Why you might ask? Because not everyone involved in these games has the same access to these programs as you do. (I do not use ANY program)

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applies to other things, like poker books. How fair is it to use the info in poker books by Sklansky, Miller or Yao when other people don't use this info? Not fair at all obviously.

Also, I have to get my vpip up. Wait, I mean call more preflop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. After all, it's not fiar for me not to cold call QTo in MP when other players don't know any better.

Taking notes is also out, since not every player does this.

Thanks for the lesson in ethics.

[jb9]

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Anyone can use PT or other software. Anyone can stop playing at tables where they are used.

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Anyone cannot use it.

Not only does it costs $55 (or whatever) for the software, but you have to know about it and have some expertise in using it to benefit from it.

Someone who deposits $200 at Party to try out the .5/1 tables cannot reasonably buy this software.

Anyone playing those games and using the software has a distinct advantage over this player.

You can say "so what" or "so be it" or "screw the loser who only deposits $200" but that doesn't change the fact that someone who can afford the $55 and the time to learn the software has an advantage at the poker table.

Some people think this is so unfair that active steps should be taken to eliminate this advantage.

I don't completely agree with them, but I understand their argument and think it has some reasonable logic behind it.

If the poker sites were to ban the software, I would stop using it. One of the primary reasons I started using it in the first place was so that other players wouldn't have an advantage over me (which goes back to OP's original point about a "software arms race").

[obsidian]

PT doesn't make any decisions for you. Poker bots do. Is this distinction really that hard for you to make?

[TheHip41]

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I would like to add that I am a internet player of 2 years.
Up until last week, I had never once felt that I had been cheated or played against someone who had an unequal advantage.
After visiting the WinHoldem site, reading the various posts about bots, and reading articles on internet poker bots and programs, my opinion has changed.
I am not going to divulge into the situation, but for the first time in 2 years, I knew something was up. I even posted last week in the SSNL whether anyone agreed with me. They all assured me that it was variance and no one can cheat, and if they could they would be cheating at higher levels. Well after today, I am 99% sure that at least 3 people at the table I was playing at were colluding through winHoldem. I could care less if anyone believes me or not.

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can i borrow your tin foil hat?

[Gregatron]

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[ QUOTE ]
Anyone can use PT or other software. Anyone can stop playing at tables where they are used.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone cannot use it.

Not only does it costs $55 (or whatever) for the software, but you have to know about it and have some expertise in using it to benefit from it.

Someone who deposits $200 at Party to try out the .5/1 tables cannot reasonably buy this software.

Anyone playing those games and using the software has a distinct advantage over this player.

You can say "so what" or "so be it" or "screw the loser who only deposits $200" but that doesn't change the fact that someone who can afford the $55 and the time to learn the software has an advantage at the poker table.

Some people think this is so unfair that active steps should be taken to eliminate this advantage.

I don't completely agree with them, but I understand their argument and think it has some reasonable logic behind it.

If the poker sites were to ban the software, I would stop using it. One of the primary reasons I started using it in the first place was so that other players wouldn't have an advantage over me (which goes back to OP's original point about a "software arms race").

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Hell yeah. The same applies to poker books too. I mean, how unfair is it to have a player who spent several hundreds of dollars on poker books to improve his game, when other players simply can't of won't do that, because they only have $200 to apply to poker?

Other people are lazy. They don't want to spend hours improving thier game. Why should they have to face the dissadvantage of playing people that have taken the initiative to learn to play poker well? It's simply unfair -- just because they have less of a resource (motivation) does not mean they should be punished for it! We should all stop reading the strat forums immediately, becuase there are so many players that 1) don't know about 2p2 and 2) would not use it if they did.

Thank you so much. People like you have opened my eyes. I love this new philosophy of player hatian ethics.

[jb9]

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PT doesn't make any decisions for you. Poker bots do. Is this distinction really that hard for you to make?

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I agree the distinction is enormous.

[j_gomberski]

um, if you cant afford $55, then how can you afford $200, when it is almost a sure thing you will lose that money within a month or so?