A hand vs Rizen in stars 109 double stack

[shaundeeb]

eagles with a board like this I think it's the opposite calling makes your hand either monster or float, because he's going to be betting a lot of turns and you know that and he prob knows you know that.

[jaroot]

[ QUOTE ]

to build a pot before a scare card i.e. an overcard to his pp comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding!

[Pudge714]

[ QUOTE ]
eagles with a board like this I think it's the opposite calling makes your hand either monster or float, because he's going to be betting a lot of turns and you know that and he prob knows you know that.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I don't think I ever raise this flop. What do you do with TT here? JJ?

[DerrtySlime]

raising the flop to a good playr like rizen will make him fold his AQ,AK and who knows if he wants to get involved this early with JJ,QQ.

By flat calling we can MAYBE(its possible) get value if he bets the turn as a bluff with AK,AQ and at the same time will get more value out of his high pairs when we just call and make him react first on the turn.

[DerrtySlime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
eagles with a board like this I think it's the opposite calling makes your hand either monster or float, because he's going to be betting a lot of turns and you know that and he prob knows you know that.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I don't think I ever raise this flop. What do you do with TT here? JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

you just call obv. shaundeeb saying that if you call here you only have a monster/pure float is absurd.

[shaundeeb]

I also want to add I think metagame really doesn't matter with this hand as it will come up so rarely vs a specific opp.

[MLG]

shaun,
the point i think pudge is making, isnt a metagame point. its the idea that calling that flop looks a lot JJ-77, not like a monster or float.

[uclabruinz]

Calling the flop looks like JJ-77, QQ-AA, and a float, which is why I think Rizen will fire at almost any turn with his pretty well-defined range of hands.

[TheNewf]

You should probably just go ahead and 4-bet preflop this deep given that you have some history and he knows you're probably capable of 4-betting without the nuts in that position. As played I probably just raise flop, I don't know how often rizen fires second/third barrels with air here though but I'm guessing it's prboably not enough that calling is better.

[uclabruinz]

Rizen does not have air here. We're trying to get him to fire at the turn for value and information.