yellowsub throws a sick min-raise my way

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
i think u played this meh, folding is kinda exploitable, but shoving is bad and calling (which i think u did) isnt so hot either. i guess dont rr or bet flop?

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah i'd check the flop personally without much of a read

if folding is exploitable, then calling and shoving probably aren't both bad. personally i'm not too happy folding here since your hand looks like bs. his range after betting the flop is probably polarized between huge hands and hopeless hands so it's clear you can be taking a one-time shot. half the stacks are in the middle so he can probably count on you not bluffing the turn, so i don't mind a call just to see what you do on the turn. the turn is definitely not a good spot for you to bluff. he can easily have AK, AA, KK at that point, and you have to be worried that he makes a stubborn call with QQ or JJ getting 3-1. so i don't see you bluffing, unless you have spades, which i'd be absolutely shocked if you did. if he thinks you're kinda crazy or capable of shoving the turn half pot as a pure bluff then shoving the flop is fine, since he can't make money on the turn and can take you off lots of 3- or 6-out hands with a shove, hands that would otherwise get a free turn and river. and realize that if he flipped over his hand and showed you Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you're getting the right price to call i think. so shoving to fold out those types of hands definitely has merit

note i'd much rather continue with A8 than 99 or TT. at least he has outs when behind, and if you're bullshitting with AQ, you only have 3 outs. so both shoving over and calling with A8 is better than TT or 99 (and with those hands he probably can't flat call, maybe unless he plans to bluff the river if a Q or J falls). with those hands i'd just fold, and probably not even bet the flop to begin with. here, shoving is almost certainly +EV, but maybe not more than calling.

it also helps that most people (and i assume especially on stars) 4-bet AK preflop, so his range of big hands is probably AA, 88, doubtful KQ/KJs, though AK is of course possible.

[yellowsub]

you guys forgot a/b his backdoor flush draw! thats gotta count for something, eh?

[dstncredible]

am i the only one that checks this flop?

[dstncredible]

[ QUOTE ]
you guys forgot a/b his backdoor flush draw! thats gotta count for something, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

only if we count his backdoor FH and Quad draws.

[Cali4niaRaisin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call flop, check turn, fold to a reasonable turn bet.

I think sub checks behind turn a lot if he's behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

this line seems wrong, however i play it this way alot. still seems wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

[LegallyBlind]

[ QUOTE ]
i remember from playing you your stats look real nitty, like 16/12, but you still 3-bet enough

so sub is probabyl just playing off that and figures he can get a real cheap bluff here, i dunno, i just cant see him playing a big hand here vs a player like you but who knows what your actual dynamic is


[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno if sub has any kind of read of me, but if he does its probably not strong. since most of the pots are play with him are contested and won/lost preflop.

just as an aside, my #'s are not 16/12. I dunno how many hands you have that over, but its alot lower than my actual numbers, which, no matter how hard i try to get higher, always hover around 21/17.

[Eagles]

I shove

[LegallyBlind]

[ QUOTE ]
Call flop, check turn, fold to a reasonable turn bet.

I think sub checks behind turn a lot if he's behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is how i felt too. so i called.

the turn was the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Is shoving or check/calling a better play at this point? At the time I shoved, but i think a c/c might be a better play.

[yellowsub]

shove only gets called by what beats u, and very few hands that yer behind fold

[MTBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
shove only gets called by what beats u, and very few hands that yer behind fold

[/ QUOTE ]