outdoing tommy, andy fox, and maybe even TxRedMan!

[Entity]

Mike,

Getting 10:2 on a call, I'd think you need to make up about ~8-10SB on average when you call here. If the "loose-passive" guy were a tight-passive player, then I think it's close; but with a loosie trapped in between you two if you flop a set and no real fear of losing too many postflop bets when you don't flop good, I think it's a bad fold. Not catastrophically bad or anything, but slightly -EV. If you have the control to fold preflop you definitely have the control to fold on the flop when you don't spike.

Rob

[mike l.]

"Does Eva still play every day?"

yes but her status has been lowered to minor fish compared to some of the people coming in there lately.

[skp]

[ QUOTE ]
right. except i might decide to call or raise a 9 high flop. because I'll like my hand all of a sudden.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, You wont. Not if you have this guy pegged at AA or KK. If you don't have him pegged at AA or KK, then folding JJ is wrong for other reasons. In any event, I already alluded to this possibility in my initial post when I said that playing JJ is harder in this spot if you can't peg the guy in the blinds on an overpair.

[ QUOTE ]
or maybe it comes 3 spades and i have Js. or maybe it comes KQ9 with two suits that i like. or or or. and these things combined happen often enough to matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, they do matter but they matter in your favor. These are additional reasons to call preflop and not fold preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
next hand please.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a near cinch that on your next hand, your EV position will be much worse than your EV on this JJ hand.

[rory]

hi mike,

take a second right now and stop everything and really give yourself persmission to fold a 9 high flop for one bet with JJ if you are ever in this situation again. that way you can call for your implied odds and fold if you don't flop a set. you know you can do it, you just weren't ready this time. next time you will be.

[mike l.]

what about those messy flops like KQ9 and A72 of my suit?

[mike l.]

"is it totally impossible for this guy to have AK suited"

if im making that sort of laydown then my read is dead on. that's how im able to call you down with 9 high that one time.

[rory]

You can fold those too if you feel like it.

[mike l.]

no. sometimes it's right to call on those. moreso then the preflop call. but they are sticky spots where you can have high variance and a thin edge.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
no. sometimes it's right to call on those. moreso then the preflop call. but they are sticky spots where you can have high variance and a thin edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've missed his point.

-DeathDonkey

[brick]

You can fold those too if you feel like it. You'll still have an edge from the times you flop a set and get paid off.