50NL Missed Turn C/R - now what? - Page 2

AE6 · #11 10-16-2006, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian floats. Has AF 5 and is vpip 55. I c/r'd him on the turn with a mad hand earlier which he folded to.

I was going for the c/r again here, but he didn't bet.

On the river, I figured I wasn't getting much from most hands if I bet big, so I decided to lead for only half to induce or get 2pr/bluff to raise and then I would push.

What do you do on the river after missed turn c/r ?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($87.40)
MP ($57.70)
Button ($62.85)
Hero ($70.55)
BB ($23.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($5.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5.5, UTG calls $5.50.

Turn: ($16.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($16.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG raises to $27, Hero raises to $62.55, UTG calls.

Final Pot: $139.60

[/ QUOTE ]
Turn checkraise is such a superstrong line that I think you will be missing out on some value by getting him to lay down some solid hands. I would just lead out on the turn for 2/3 pot. If you double barrel bluff at all in your game, villain will be suspicious. If you don't, start.

As played, the river lead is good, but I'd make it more like 12. When he raises, it indicates he probably made his flush, I'd just flat call in that spot.

sudic · #12 10-16-2006, 01:21 PM

I'm no expert.

I see you are trying to get as much money as possible.

But I think you have to bet on the turn to discourage the diamond draws.

If he playing for a diamond he isn't going to bet and allow you to C/R him.

He's hoping for a opportunity to get a free card.

Unfortunately for you it worked out perfectly for him.

He wasn't trying to bluff or anything he tagged along behind you on every street.

So he was trying to draw to something str8, flush, etc.

ymu · #13 10-16-2006, 01:22 PM

What Kurto said. Sorry for wasting more space on your thread, but isn't it kind of obvious? You have the current nuts, bet it because ...

1. You like money

2. Betting it is by far the best way to keep him uncertain about your hand - whereas a checkraise is by far the easiest way to turn it face up given that you can't physically do that online

3. You checkraised him before - you think he's going to fall for your oh so fancy play again?

Shaddux · #14 10-16-2006, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kick myself.

[/ QUOTE ]
It'd be great if you didn't waste space by posting.

[ QUOTE ]
why keep looking for places to checkraise? Bet for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't c/r the turn with floaters? What do you do with floaters - just leave the table?

Anyway, my question is specific to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
No way in hell I'm leaving a table where people are going to call my value bets. If you think he will float the turn, why would you c/r the nuts? Please value bet.

Shaddux · #15 10-16-2006, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree w/ Kurto. You said you c/r'd him off a hand on the turn earlier, so why would he try it again?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was wondering the same thing.

JackAll · #16 10-16-2006, 01:39 PM

The fact that I c/r before is a good point for not doing it again which I didn't previously consider. And I agree that c/r the turn has too much FE which would be the main mistake. But then again, why c/r with AK on an A high board either?

To those saying I gave a free card for a flush draw, what hands do you think he cals flop with that we are afraid of a flush draw on the turn?

Shaddux · #17 10-16-2006, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But then again, why c/r with AK on an A high board either?

[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't know why I would c/r here. I lead 100% of the time.

CrazyEyez · #18 10-16-2006, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To those saying I gave a free card for a flush draw, what hands do you think he cals flop with that we are afraid of a flush draw on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
9d8d, Qd9d, I guess.
What's his pfr %?
Would he call flop with Ax?

edited for retardedness.

ymu · #19 10-16-2006, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To those saying I gave a free card for a flush draw, what hands do you think he cals flop with that we are afraid of a flush draw on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't you say in the OP that he floats ...?

Any diamond or board pairing card on the river may slow one or both of you down, so even if you still have the best hand it'll be hard to get any money in - and if he's willing to get money in, you won't know that you're ahead.

The money that goes in when you're a 4:1 favourite against his set or flush draw, or 9:1 against his 2 pair or infinity:1 favourite when he's drawing dead, is worth much more to you than the money that goes in when you're likely beat.

The outcome of any one hand doesn't matter - it's how well we get money in as a favourite, and how much we make villain overpay for his draws without paying him off sufficiently when he hits, that matters.