WCOOP $1050 NL. QQ in MP

[adanthar]

CDC,

This stuff only works if you're me. Also, for future reference, you should throw in a 'lol donkaments' somewhere in there.

Everyone who is not CDC,

Read all of his posts ITT because right now, this thread sucks.

Frank Zappy,

You in particular have said three different things in this thread that all contradict each other and the thought process you should have. Pay attention to CDC, for he is good at poker and absolutely right.

OP,

CDC is right in that the raise size isn't high enough to just call PF, but OK, you called. This means that when you flop an overpair on a decent looking board you are going broke, so now, you go broke. This does *not* mean that you call this bet and invite him to turn an ace or check/fold JJ when a ten hits.

So what do you raise to? You can shove, maybe even should against many/most people, but it's an overbet. If you overbet a lot, that's OK, go ahead and shove. If you don't, this is a rare situation where you can consider a minraise or a near minraise (a raise to 12K with 9K back is scarier than a shove, IMO, therefore you should never do this). Of course you call a push, and of course you are committed if he just calls on any turn/river cards. If you raise to about 9-10K he is not even getting implied odds to call with AK and will probably fold regardless, so it's fine.

All,

Answers like "reraise to put some pressure on him" or something about ninjas are how it's really easy to spot inexperienced posters, because they come straight out of books and don't make any sense given the exact situation roughly 97% of the time. How are you going to "put some pressure on him" when he has a)missed the flop or b)has an overpair? Think about this one for a while...why would you even want to do that given either of those things?

[J.A.K.]

[ QUOTE ]
CDC,

This stuff only works if you're me. Also, for future reference, you should throw in a 'lol donkaments' somewhere in there.

Everyone who is not CDC,

Read all of his posts ITT because right now, this thread sucks.

Frank Zappy,

You in particular have said three different things in this thread that all contradict each other and the thought process you should have. Pay attention to CDC, for he is good at poker and absolutely right.

OP,

CDC is right in that the raise size isn't high enough to just call PF, but OK, you called. This means that when you flop an overpair on a decent looking board you are going broke, so now, you go broke. This does *not* mean that you call this bet and invite him to turn an ace or check/fold JJ when a ten hits.

So what do you raise to? You can shove, maybe even should against many/most people, but it's an overbet. If you overbet a lot, that's OK, go ahead and shove. If you don't, this is a rare situation where you can consider a minraise or a near minraise (a raise to 12K with 9K back is scarier than a shove, IMO, therefore you should never do this). Of course you call a push, and of course you are committed if he just calls on any turn/river cards. If you raise to about 9-10K he is not even getting implied odds to call with AK and will probably fold regardless, so it's fine.

All,

Answers like "reraise to put some pressure on him" or something about ninjas are how it's really easy to spot inexperienced posters, because they come straight out of books and don't make any sense given the exact situation roughly 97% of the time. How are you going to "put some pressure on him" when he has a)missed the flop or b)has an overpair? Think about this one for a while...why would you even want to do that given either of those things?

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<Chuckling> And............................................... .....................thread over.



Make that ROFLMAO.

[Cornell Fiji]

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<Chuckling> And............................................... .....................thread over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't end my thread [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I agree that raising 8k-10k more doesn't leave the hero much behind in case of a call and ace on the turn so why risk that disaster scenario if a raise of 8-10k more actually looks stronger than a push here?

CDC suggested virtually minraising 5k more up to 9k leaving the hero with 14k behind. I think I like this more than making a real raise to 12k and if he pushes over the top I am calling but what do I do if he calls and then leads an A or K turn all-in? What do I do if he checks an A or K turn?

Isn't there enough in the pot now to put in all of my chips and pray for the best?

-----

As for you definitely saying that I should be raising this preflop is there any creedence to my argument that there is only 3000 in there preflop and raising him will most likely take the pot down therefore not making it worthwhile for me to do so at this stage in the tournament (I have avg stack, my M=30, 400 players left.) Also, raising his bet pf gives me a chance to either be played off of my hand by AKs if I would fold to a push (which I do not think I would do in this situation.) Is a preflop raise for me that clear cut?

[CardSharpCook]

I think the only thing that *might* keep me from going broke here is an ace on the turn and he leads. However, I might call anyway. The main reason for the smaller bet is to invite more action either in him calling with overcards, pushing on a stone-cold bluff, or pushing with a hand that he thinks is good (AT,KT,99,JJ, etc). If he checks a A/K turn, I'm still pushing. If he calls our raise, QJ,KJ,KQ, are all viable holdings which have 5-8 outs on an ace turn and we have to call the river if we check the turn, so we might as well bet.

Pushing now, is, as Adanthar suggested, often the best play here, but not because of the a/k turn threat. It is often the best play because players often scoff at such an overbet and well call off their stacks with any ten, and sometimes even any pair. You mentioned not wanting to turn this into 72. Remember that. Don't get nervous just because now there is a flop. Our goal is still to make the most out of our QQ without allowing it to get cracked cheaply (as it might be were we to just call the flop)

Yes, I think it is a must reraise PF. Your position and his small raise make this so. Playing in a manner to prevent yourself from having to make difficult decisions isn't very profitbale. Edges in poker come from making difficult decisons. PF, given our stack size, and the table description, I am likely folding if my raise gets reraised. If that means I allowed AK or JJ to "outplay" me, so be it.

also, adanthar
CDC = Chris Dady Cool
CSC = CardSharpCook
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