Cubs self-destruction thread

[hawk59]

Jack,

Way too much Braves fanboy-ing and Cubs bashing in this thread. Let's stick to the intelligent discussion on this board. Thanks.

[crockpot]

it's really disturbing seeing the number of articles all over the place supporting dusty and saying none of the team's struggles this year are his fault. don't these people recognize the difference between firing him because the team is performing poorly now and firing him because he has sucked as a manager for years?

on another note, can anyone figure out why dusty, with his 60 walks/year as a player, is preaching a no-patience approach to hitting, while ozzie guillen and his 20 have developed one of the best walking teams in the league?

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
on another note, can anyone figure out why dusty, with his 60 walks/year as a player, is preaching a no-patience approach to hitting, while ozzie guillen and his 20 have developed one of the best walking teams in the league?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot tell you how embarrassing it is that I've spent hours discussing this very topic and still don't know the answer

[Quadstriker]

[ QUOTE ]
it's really disturbing seeing the number of articles all over the place supporting dusty and saying none of the team's struggles this year are his fault. don't these people recognize the difference between firing him because the team is performing poorly now and firing him because he has sucked as a manager for years?

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I would agree with this, and challenge people to come up with specific examples of how Dusty Baker has improved the Cubs.

[MyTurn2Raise]

well...i do give Dusty credit for being a guy who can motivate and bring out some good in his players

in 2003, he did an awesome job of giving the Cubs a competitive edge to their mentality.

the lovable losers image was following them around. They became a bit 'mean' even that year.

There was a pretty good article in the ST. Louis Post-Dispatch in early/mid 2004 about how these weren't our fathers' Cubs anymore. It was about how the Small Bears weren't to be pushed around anymore. This was the day after the Cubs got a big hit to centerfield from Ramirez and beat the Cards at Busch in a tightly contested battle. IIRC, it either put the Cubs one back or tied them for the lead. That very night after the article, the Cubs blew a 4-run lead at Busch and their season fell apart while the Cards went on to win 105 games...oh well, it was still a good article that shows how far Dusty was going at one point. The article was actually written at the apex of Dusty's managerial career in Chicago, which makes it quite interesting.

EDITED: showing where the levee broke
the Cubs were coming off the 2003 NLCS and had a big series in September of 2003 where they took 4 of 5 from the Cards signifying a new day had come

As of June 23, 2004

NL Central Standings
Team-----W-L-Pct--GB
St. Louis 41 29 .586 --
Chi Cubs 40 30 .571 1.0
Cincinnati 38 32 .543 3.0
Milwaukee 36 31 .537 3.5
Houston 37 33 .529 4.0
Pittsburgh 26 41 .388 13.5

on June 24th, the Cubs were up 9-5 on the Cards heading into the late innings and had been pwning the Cards throughout the year

then...the titanic sank

As of July 26th:

NL Central Standings
Team---W--L---Pct-GB
St. Louis 62 36 .633 --
Chi Cubs 52 46 .531 10.0
Cincinnati 50 49 .505 12.5
Houston 49 49 .500 13.0
Milwaukee 48 49 .495 13.5
Pittsburgh 47 49 .490 14.0

NL Central Standings
Team---W--L--Pct--GB
St. Louis 105 57 .648 --
Houston 92 70 .568 13.0
Chi Cubs 89 73 .549 16.0
Cincinnati 76 86 .469 29.0
Pittsburgh 72 89 .447 32.5
Milwaukee 67 94 .416 37.5

the two seasons preceding Dusty, the Cubs went 155-169
through June 23rd of 2004, Dusty's Cubs went 128-104
From June 24th, 2004 to June 1st, Dusty's Cubs went 148-158

interesting

[MyTurn2Raise]

i found the article through stltoday.com, but they wanted $2.95 for me to download it....booooo

only gives me the first few sentences, but I know this is the story

[ QUOTE ]

BIRDS PECK BY CUBS : This Cubs squad should be shown the proper respect
BERNIE MIKLASZ
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (MO) June 24, 2004

Section: Sports Edition: Five Star
Page D01 Word count: 1542

ID#: 1000032761
IT'S TIME FOR Cardinals fans to drop the arrogant pose and face up to the truth: you don't have the Cubs to kick around anymore. This is not your father's patsy. You'll need to find another chew toy. You'll need a fresh punch line to finish your Cub jokes. You need to come up with some fresh material instead of constantly referencing 1908. I am not saying that the Cubs will win the NL Central. I am not saying that the Cubs'

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[waldo027]

Until they at least go to a World Series they will still be the biggest joke in all of sports. I'm from St. Louis, and Bernie Mikalsz is quite a bad sportswriter.

[crockpot]

yeah, i remember june 24. i invited the guys over for some beers and steaks, and we were having a hell of a time until that implosion. at least the beer came in handy.

[nsdjoe]

Zambrano just hit a 3-run homer. LOL.

[mblax10]

A Zambrano HR in Houston. This brings back fond memories.