Toast?

Leader · #1 08-20-2006, 02:03 AM

He's 39/9/1.9 over 143

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero...

5.5-1?

ILOVEPOKER929 · #2 08-20-2006, 02:14 AM

Yes youre probably dead, but I still call down, I dont fold top pair against these kind of opponents no matter what the action.

MacGuyV · #3 08-20-2006, 02:15 AM

I think it's 6.5:1 but yeah even that appears awful when you look at it that way but if you can't fold the turn (and I don't think you can) you're getting 13:1 on the river - tough fold that I should probably start making.

virompl · #4 08-20-2006, 02:17 AM

against this sort of opponent where you would hate folding to a 3 bet, is it better to just call down from the turn without raising?

Mossberg · #5 08-20-2006, 02:18 AM

I can only really put him on trips or a flopped straight.. Maybe even two-pair.. Either way, I think you're behind and drawing slim.. OTOH, I'm sick and tired of seeing these pigs get away with bluffs..

I personally hate these spots because I either fold and then chew myself up thinking about how I might have been ahead, and OTOH if I call-down and see 66, I think to myself, "why the hell didn't I go with my gut feeling!"

I could be way off, but against a LAG like this guy, is it ever okay to just call the turn? I think if there is any chance that the raise might get 3bet (forcing us to make a relatively big fold against a LAG or an expensive calldown) then we might as well just get to showdown for as cheap as possible.. No?

MacGuyV · #6 08-20-2006, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
against this sort of opponent where you would hate folding to a 3 bet, is it better to just call down from the turn without raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only when he 3bets, which is rarely.

Leader · #7 08-20-2006, 02:24 AM

I wouldn't classify this guy as a LAG. 1.9 with a VPiP of 39 certainly isn't passive but it isn't kamikaze either. The low pfr is also suggestive of a more passive player rather then a live one.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #8 08-20-2006, 02:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't classify this guy as a LAG. 1.9 with a VPiP of 39 certainly isn't passive but it isn't kamikaze either. The low pfr is also suggestive of a more passive player rather then a live one.

[/ QUOTE ]

39/1.9 is still aggressive enough for me to never fold this strong of a hand even after this gruesome action. I agree with you that his PFR contradicts his AF, and it may suggest some passive tendencies, but i still cant make this fold. Even if it is the right play, I cant do it. Against a passive player I can fold here all day, but I dont fully trust this guy.

TomBrooks · #9 08-20-2006, 04:10 AM

I'd peel but fold the river UI. He's beating you right now close to 90% of the time and 90% of the time if he bets the river.

LoaferGee · #10 08-20-2006, 04:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
against this sort of opponent where you would hate folding to a 3 bet, is it better to just call down from the turn without raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only when he 3bets, which is rarely.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really not that rare. TT, 88, 66, A8, A6, AT and even T8/T6 may 3-bet here. All these are very possible holdings at this point. I agree with the top quote here, if we're going to raise this turn we have to go to showdown. Otherwise, I think we should just call it down. Putting ourselves in a position to fold TP2K here is no good.