Tough river decision against unknown
 

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $190.00
BB: $325.30
UTG: $265.10
Hero (MP): $211.20
CO: $24.70
BTN: $0.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, CO calls $7.00, BTN calls $7.00, 2 folds

Flop: ($24) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $18.00</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $18.00

Turn: ($60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $46.00</font>, BTN calls $46.00

River: ($152) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ???????


Ok I have two questions.
what would you do here on river if you decided to check and uknown villain shoved?
Now how about 43/10/1.5 and who has a 20% fold to c-bet, how would you play and if check do you call a shove?

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

I think a blocking bet of about $55 is best here. I think you can still fold to his push

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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I think a blocking bet of about $55 is best here. I think you can still fold to his push

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Thats probably best agaisnt an unknown....although a good player will see that blocking bet as weakness and might push without the flush.

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

Push, it's not close.

edit compared to check/calling edit

shove or check/fold any other line sucks check/calling lets u get owned so hard

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Push, it's not close.

edit compared to check/calling edit

shove or check/fold any other line sucks check/calling lets u get owned so hard

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming 100bbs what he said.

I may c/f against unknown.

Def shove v 46/10.

Paul

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

Why doesn't button have any money?

I'm c/f if it's an unknown nit, is that really bad?

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

I shove this, think he has a lower set more often than the flush, and if he's that loose he will call.

Anyway would be nice to know how much money he had, though to be honest I shove here no matter what. More money in the pot then you have, so the way I figure it if he has the set you triple your current stack, if he has 2-pair he probably folds (small chance of call) in which case you double your stack, if he has the flush you're out of luck, but at least you made the right play.

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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I think a blocking bet of about $55 is best here. I think you can still fold to his push

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If he does that the pot will be around 260$ with hero having 80$ left, are you really folding the top set with better than 4:1 pot odds ?

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

c/f (obv call a small bet) and push are roughly neutral ev it would appear

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

yeah c/c def worse line (as tuff_fish should now be able to tell you [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

Can someone please explain the theory why check-calling has a lower expectation than shoving or check-folding?

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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Can someone please explain the theory why check-calling has a lower expectation than shoving or check-folding?

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If you check-call he is betting flush, straight and checking most other things. If you shove he will call with tp and stuff surprisingly often.

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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Can someone please explain the theory why check-calling has a lower expectation than shoving or check-folding?

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Villain is likely to check behind with everything worse than QJ (a lot of players even check QJ). Almost all draws hit so a check won't induce bluffs from missed draws. Basically his calling range is much wider than his betting range.

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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If you shove he will call with tp and stuff surprisingly often.

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I guess that is where I was failing to see the logic - I just can't imagine villain will call these hands that often. Maybe that's because I'd bet a flush draw the same way (i.e double barrel then shove when I hit it). I guess there is a lot to be said for check-fold if villain isn't the sort to call without a very strong hand here if you push but would check nearly everything that wasn't beating you if you check to him.

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I think a blocking bet of about $55 is best here. I think you can still fold to his push

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Thats probably best agaisnt an unknown....although a good player will see that blocking bet as weakness and might push without the flush.

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yeah but i dont think that kind of villain is all that common at ssnl... besides the river hit T9 also, anything else hed call flop/turn with has sd value

disclaimer: i havent played poker or been on 2+2 in months

Re: Tough river decision against unknown
 

Yea hand converter messed up, villain has 100bb. So you guys are using the same line against unknown and a 46/10? Having stats changes nothing?