2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

2/5 live game, 10 handed. Villian #1($1200) seems like a solid TAG who knows what he's doing (his min-raise notwithstanding). Villian#2 ($480) is a LAGish donk who likes to splash around and play big pots. Hero covers.

Preflop:
Hero raises UTG+1 to $30 with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 1 call, Vill#1 calls, Vill#2 calls, everyone else folds.

Flop($120): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $120, 1 fold, Vill#1 raises to $240, Vill#2 shoves for $450 total. Hero???

I think there's a good chance I'm ahead of Vill#2, but Vill#1's min-raise and the fact we're somewhat deep worry me. I think this is a clear cut fold, anyone disagree?

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

no, you said it yourself. this is a rediculously easy fold

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

easy fold. does anyone else bet less on this flop OOP? say $80-90.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

I like to pot it there. It's a draw heavy board. Plus if you get raised after making that bet it just makes letting the hand go all that easier

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

If he has you beat, he will raise more to shut out donkadonk behind him. I push.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

I folded, Vill#1 called. Vill#1 had 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Vill#2 had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Turn and river were bricks and Vill#2 wins with Ace high.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Very easy fold.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

I would have folded, reloaded to max and enjoyed the ride at the table [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I folded, Vill#1 called. Vill#1 had 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Vill#2 had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Turn and river were bricks and Vill#2 wins with Ace high.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you consider the fact that it makes no sense at all for a solid player to min-raise on such a draw heavy board with a chasing donk sitting behind him? Meh. Easy push. I'll gladly take JJ against the donkadonk with a nice overlay from the solid player already in the middle. No way you're behind solid player here.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop($120): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded, Vill#1 called. Vill#1 had 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Vill#2 had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Turn and river were bricks and Vill#2 wins with Ace high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask for a new deck or chase spade-draws and gutshots where you need a 7 more in future hands..

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop($120): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, that was a 9 on the flop, not a 7.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Rrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeediciulously easy. Because you bet out first, and perhaps the only reason that TAG villain mini-raised is so that he can get DonkDonk to push. No, you're out.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

all the advice in this thread is quite horrible, this is most definitely NOT an easy fold and it probably shouldnt be folded at all.
NOT NOT NOT an easy fold.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Fold. You're being results oriented.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
all the advice in this thread is quite horrible, this is most definitely NOT an easy fold and it probably shouldnt be folded at all.
NOT NOT NOT an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
FU. I WOULD HAVE PUSHED.

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Sometimes you're ahead here, but this looks a lot like 777, 888, or just plain old 7-8s to me.

I dont like your PF line here at all.

6x the BB?

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Are you advocating I raise more or less? $25-$30 is my standard opener. If I only make it 15 or 20, I'm liable to get 5 or 6 callers (trust me, I play live a lot and small opening raises draw people to the pot like moths to a flame). Do you want to play JJ OOP in a big pot against a big field?

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

Okay, JJ is vulnerable, I agree. But most of the time it will be the best hand PF, so I dont mind getting action with JJ.

If you can expect to routinely play a HU or 3-way pot with this opener, so be it.

I dont like raising to 6x the BB because in my experience it often winds up getting raised by a better hand or AK, and, much of the time I just win the blinds.

I think that this opener is a little defensive, IMO, and it shuts out some of the hands you want calling you.


I think if this opener gets action, it's fine, but I'll also go as far as to say that you need to be making this same opening raise (although a limp RR looks better with AA) with AA, as well as a hand like 9-10sooted, and occasionally a small PP.


I think that a lot of players have grown to dislike JJ because they have misplayed/overplayed it, and they hate the thought of playing it after the flop OOP when an overcard appears.

But like I said, I dont mind action with JJ because the times I can take down the pot on the flop with an overpair, and the times I flop a set.


One thing that I told myself was this; If they dont have Queens or better, and if they didnt flop a set, I might as well have AA instead of JJ on a rag flop, and that makes me a little more comfortable proceeding forward.




Tex

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he has you beat, he will raise more to shut out donkadonk behind him. I push.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is terrible advice

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

o rly?

Re: 2/5 live: easiest fold ever?
 

That min raise feels weak. In the games I play, it almost always means either a a scared draw or a mediocre made hand looking to get information. Monsters almost always just call or put in a real raise. The LAG thought that raise was weak and shoved. His problem is that his stack isn't big enough to apply enough pressure to accomplish what he really wants.

I do think this is a push or fold situation, and it's not trivially easy. If you're ahead here it's not by much. If you're already behind, you're WAY behind.

I lay this down, but it's very definitely not as easy as has been suggested, at least not for me.