Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Live 3/6 8-handed
Villian 1 is a lagtard in the SB. Villian 2 is super loose, pretty passive UTG.

Hero is on the button with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: 2 limpers including UTG, Hero raises, Blinds and limpers call.

Flop: (9 SB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, everyone calls.

Turn: (7.5 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] (3 Players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG calls.

River: (12.5 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]][9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] (2 Players)
UTG check, Hero checks!?

Someone tell me that's awful so I don't do it again. Comments on other steets welcome also.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

ummm...why didn't you bet on the river?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

I'd still value bet this river. If you get C/R then I wouldn't 3-bet and would just call.

I also don't mind the check since UTG has cold-called all the way and you said he was fairly passive which could indicate he does have something > 88

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

lol terrible

What are you giving UTG? The case jack? Td 9d?

UTG limped, he has a pocket 8s beat PF like zero percent of the time, and there's no way 99 isn't going more bets on the turn.

The reason for betting is because he's passive. In my opinion even if he had T9 I don't think he's going to raise you on the river with anything BUT quads after you raised once, twice, three times.

Bet the river.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Thanks everyone. I hope that does the trick.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Wait! I needed to say...

BERAAATE!!!

Hahah.
Bet the river.
Bet the hell out of it.
Doesn't seem like he would check the jack. He would check/call a straight I'm sure...
I'm giving him A7...

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6 8-handed
hero is a lagtard on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is horrible on all streets. Your way to agressive vs your opponent's hand ranges

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6 8-handed
hero is a lagtard on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is horrible on all streets. Your way to agressive vs your opponent's hand ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your recommended line? c/c down?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

boot to the head

You gotta stop holding back.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

I think on this hand I am out by the turn. I'm wondering if it is even wise to continue on after the flop?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6 8-handed
hero is a lagtard on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is horrible on all streets. Your way to agressive vs your opponent's hand ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

What's their range?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6 8-handed
hero is a lagtard on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is horrible on all streets. Your way to agressive vs your opponent's hand ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

What's their range?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah.. rather than asking this question, you should be posting the answer! The reason why I only said the hand was played poorly and didn't give advice how to fix it was because I was trying to encourage others to step up to the plate to discuss since they should be blatantly obvious. My posting style is to instigate discussion when the solution is approachable, but I always try to provide solutions when the answers are hard to be found for the average reader of this forum (like this hand i recently posted). The best way to learn is to not receive spoofed answers, you need to dig inside of you sometimes!

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Fair enough, I'll go over what I thought thier ranges were.
When the lag is the SB didn't 3-bet me preflop, but lead out on the flop I put him on a 22-77, any 7 or any J, maybe T9, 98, AT, A9, A8. When he only called my raise, and then led out on the turn, I thought 77 or a J unlikey, as I think he goes for a c/r with those hands, leaving just hands I beat.

As for the UTG fish, he's not passive enough not to raise with 77 or a J, on the turn if not the flop. Even if he waited until the turn, his raise would have been in front of me, so I would have been able to get away from the hand. I think the rest of his range that he calls down with is pretty much identical to the hands the SB bets out with.

I must be missing something though, so I hope someone enlightens me.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
When he only called my raise, and then led out on the turn, I thought 77 or a J unlikey, as I think he goes for a c/r with those hands, leaving just hands I beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that you beat 77 after the turn?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Errr, right, good catch.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

Well, I've given this hand some more thought, and it's definatly a WA/WB situation. Especially on the turn, since even a river 8 wouldn't improve my hand against a better one. Given that, calling down does make more sense... Does it help that I was prepared to fold to a 3-bet? Or am I missing something else entirely?

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I've given this hand some more thought, and it's definatly a WA/WB situation. Especially on the turn, since even a river 8 wouldn't improve my hand against a better one. Given that, calling down does make more sense... Does it help that I was prepared to fold to a 3-bet? Or am I missing something else entirely?

[/ QUOTE ]

flop - call with the intention of looking to raise the turn.

Turn - call.

As played - I dont mind checking through on the river because he called down in the face of extreme aggression, but against some opponents I am betting 100% for sure.

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]

flop - call with the intention of looking to raise the turn.

Turn - call.

As played - I dont mind checking through on the river because he called down in the face of extreme aggression, but against some opponents I am betting 100% for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to know what kind of turn cards you'd raise. T or 9 because of the gutshot that gives me? An 8 obviously...

Re: Someone berate me for not value betting this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6 8-handed
Villian 1 is a lagtard in the SB. Villian 2 is super loose, pretty passive UTG.

Hero is on the button with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: 2 limpers including UTG, Hero raises, Blinds and limpers call.

Flop: (9 SB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, everyone calls.

Turn: (7.5 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] (3 Players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG calls.

River: (12.5 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]][9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] (2 Players)
UTG check, Hero checks!?

Someone tell me that's awful so I don't do it again. Comments on other steets welcome also.

[/ QUOTE ]

its hard for me to see you being called unless you are thought to be stone bluffing...a case J, any of the 3 remaining 9, or 2nd pair/overpair beats you--all seem unlikely even though you mentioned UTG was passive

you did good to smoke out SB's bluffing...

would UTG call if he was on a flush draw? no, he missed...

would he call with a straight? yes, somewhat plausable as it would that mean he had an inside straight draw that needed a 9, and further he would had a 8 T so he had 10 outs on the turn (6 for T & 8 plus 4 for the 9, so he would have called turn action i guess)...still, that seems like stretching it to me

bet/call is what i would have done i think..but i doubt if anyone would call...yet i would rather win without showing my hand--let him think i might have bluffed him out!