JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

No read... shove flop? I figure I have very little fold equity.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.50/$1 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $99
BB: $35
UTG: $53.10
MP: $36.05
CO: $98.50
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $98</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, SB calls $5.50, 2 folds, MP calls $5

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($20) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $30</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $15

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($80) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $63</font>, Hero calls all-in for $62
Uncalled bet of $1 returned to SB

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

Calling on the flop seems ok, but I'd fold the turn cause the flop check-minraise is frightening, I think you have 4 outs at best.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

If you think you have little fold equity, you have no reason to shove the flop.
You have to fold on the turn though because of what Mat said.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

If you figure you have little fold equity, you also have to figure that you are behind if you play it like this.

I think your equity on the flop looks like this:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,790 games 0.031 secs 670,645 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.157% 46.41% 00.75% 9648 156.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 52.843% 52.09% 00.75% 10830 156.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---


On the turn it looks like this against the same range:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924 games 0.031 secs 29,806 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.909% 40.91% 00.00% 378 0.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 59.091% 59.09% 00.00% 546 0.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---

So obviously with the odds you were getting you played it correct I think. I'd rather push the edge on the flop though with the money in the pot providing you odds.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Calling on the flop seems ok, but I'd fold the turn cause the flop check-minraise is frightening, I think you have 4 outs at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

OP,

I really don't mind either. I usually misplay these type of hands.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

What about this Bombay:

Board: Ts 9h 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.778% 30.73% 03.05% 124107 12330.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 66.222% 63.17% 03.05% 255153 12330.00 { TT-88, QJs, J7s, T8s+, 98s, 76s, QJo, J7o, T8o+, 98o, 76o }

Board: Ts 9h 8d 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 22.527% 21.19% 01.34% 3804 240.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 77.473% 76.14% 01.34% 13668 240.00 { TT-88, QJs, J7s, T8s+, 98s, 76s, QJo, J7o, T8o+, 98o, 76o }

Or, if you add TJ:

Board: Ts 9h 8d 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.703% 25.74% 01.97% 5028 384.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 72.297% 70.33% 01.97% 13740 384.00 { TT-88, QJs, JTs, J7s, T8s+, 98s, 76s, QJo, JTo, J7o, T8o+, 98o, 76o }

If he'd play any pair + OESD this way, you can call (need 31% equity on turn):

Board: Ts 9h 8d 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.888% 32.93% 02.96% 7476 672.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 64.112% 61.15% 02.96% 13884 672.00 { TT-88, QJs, J7s+, T8s+, 98s, 76s, QJo, J7o+, T8o+, 98o, 76o }

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you figure you have little fold equity, you also have to figure that you are behind if you play it like this.

I think your equity on the flop looks like this:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,790 games 0.031 secs 670,645 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.157% 46.41% 00.75% 9648 156.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 52.843% 52.09% 00.75% 10830 156.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---


On the turn it looks like this against the same range:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924 games 0.031 secs 29,806 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.909% 40.91% 00.00% 378 0.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 59.091% 59.09% 00.00% 546 0.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---

So obviously with the odds you were getting you played it correct I think. I'd rather push the edge on the flop though with the money in the pot providing you odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This range is terrible.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

Hmm I might have been a bit to optimistic with my first query. Yours is a real worst case scenario though. People do stupid things, there is no need to just assign nut hands or near nut hands for villain.

Nah, I think you are right and this might be a fold. His c/r looks very strong In a multiway pot, too. Fold might be correct.

HU I'd shove all day though.

Alsom make your decision on the flop.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you figure you have little fold equity, you also have to figure that you are behind if you play it like this.

I think your equity on the flop looks like this:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,790 games 0.031 secs 670,645 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.157% 46.41% 00.75% 9648 156.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 52.843% 52.09% 00.75% 10830 156.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---


On the turn it looks like this against the same range:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924 games 0.031 secs 29,806 games/sec

Board: Th 9d 8s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.909% 40.91% 00.00% 378 0.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 59.091% 59.09% 00.00% 546 0.00 { AA, TT-77 }


---

So obviously with the odds you were getting you played it correct I think. I'd rather push the edge on the flop though with the money in the pot providing you odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This range is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thnx for elaborating why. Add something to the discussion or don't say anything plz.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

Massimo, you are a douche bag.

Bombay,

The range you posted was very tight, disproportionally so. Thus, your equity calcs are going to be off. WhiteRabbit's looks good.

Re: JJ overpair plus OESD. No read. Shove flop, or do this?
 

Ya, you are right. I should have done it more thorough, or I shouldn't have done it. Luckily white rabbit came to the rescue. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]