AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

Villain has reasonable stats. He's doing his share of blindstealing but isn't that terribly aggressive postflop, resulting in 23/14/1.1 stats.
He definitely hasn't done anything to make me think bad of him; also I haven't really tangled with him yet. So I have generic reads, based on his stats, at best.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 7 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero ???

I didn't think all too hard about the flop call as he'll be c-betting whatever he's choosing to 3bet pf with and I do have some backdoors along with my 5outer.

However, once I got to the turn and didn't really feel like raising my 2pr, I figured something must have gone wrong...

This is a Hero-prays-and-goes-to-showdown-cheaply call, no? Or is there any ever so slight edge in raising? Should, by any chance, think about folding?

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

don't fold.

call and bet river if checked to. You have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so it is unlikely he is 3 betting preflop and betting the flop and turn with a flush draw. I would be fearing AK if he is that straight foreward of a player.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

Any idea what his 3betting preflop range is?
I really want to raise this turn with 2 pair and position.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

I'm agreeing with bennyhana regarding the flush draw. Very unlikely. I'm also agreeing that its too good to throw away.

How do you think he sees you? From your comments he's awake so he knows you're UTG and the implications of that.

I call it down hoping he has AQ, KQ, KJ or AT type of thing and not KK, AK or pocket Aces. Bet if he checks the river ala benny.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

He def. hasn't KQs or KJs and I higly doubt ATs - esp. IF he's paying attention to what a EP-raise means.

Just about the only thing I'm beating is AQ and QQ...

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

I am not being sarcastic here.

Why do you bother calling the flop if you don't like an ace on the turn?? What turns make you happy getting 5.5:1 on the flop call?

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

I see no reason to call the flop when you fold the turn. Call down.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

The turn changed nothing (you beat QQ now, but can't expect a lot of bets to be going in ahead if you raise here), but I'd probably fold the flop.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a Hero-prays-and-goes-to-showdown-cheaply call, no? Or is there any ever so slight edge in raising? Should, by any chance, think about folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like calling down. this guy isnt aggro but he will still likely punish you with monsters and shutdown with everything else. I never fold this.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

For the record you also beat TT.

Personally I'm not convinced by the pre-flop play. I'd question the open raise, and then the call. I think that this is were the trouble started. Flop and turn basically hit your hand. You should have either never seen the flop, or now take it all the way.

(but I only play .25/.50 badly, so don't take my criticism too harshly)

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

[ QUOTE ]
For the record you also beat TT.

[/ QUOTE ]

We were beating TT on the flop, so as mentioned, the turn really didn't help us except against QQ.
[ QUOTE ]

Personally I'm not convinced by the pre-flop play. I'd question the open raise, and then the call. I think that this is were the trouble started. Flop and turn basically hit your hand. You should have either never seen the flop, or now take it all the way.

(but I only play .25/.50 badly, so don't take my criticism too harshly)

[/ QUOTE ]

PF is pretty standard for the level played.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

noone actually wanted to fold this rite? I think i like not putting in a raise here as well and just bet calling the river if he checks to me on a blank (even tho i know i should fold if he pulls that but just wont cuz his lines too odd and our hands too good).

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

*grunch*

I think you're good here a little better than 1 time in 3. I couldn't possibly raise, but 5:2 on a call-down seems just good enough.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't fold.

call and bet river if checked to. You have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so it is unlikely he is 3 betting preflop and betting the flop and turn with a flush draw. I would be fearing AK if he is that straight foreward of a player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this reasoning. My initial thought was to raise, but a raise doesn't get us the result we want often enough (no worse hand calls, and we can't call a 3-bet). I call and hope a Q doesn't fall on the river.

If villian leads river, what do we do?

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

Grunching. I fold the flop. What's he 3-betting preflop that we're ahead of on the flop? AQ and TT?

We're behind AA-JJ, AK, KQ, KJ. If all 5 outs are good, we need ~ 8.5:1 to call and we're only getting 5.5:1. It's probably even worse since alot of the time hitting our A is no good.

We could raise the flop looking to take it to the river cheaply, since we'll probably only get reraised by KK and sometimes JJ here, but we can clearly fold to the reraise. I'd like this line better than calling, but I still think this is a fold.

edit: Forgot we were on the turn, as I really didn't like the flop play. Having called the flop, I'm calling down here with 2-pair.

Fold the flop, though.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

Grunch- If he's playing straightforward,the only hands that you can beat are KQ, AQ, or AJ (tie).He could easily have kings,aces, or the all-too probably AK. However if he is tricky, he might be trying to get you out of the pot with the turn bet, possibly thinking you dont have an ace or two pair. Its real close b/w calling, check-calling the river and folding.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Personally I'm not convinced by the pre-flop play. I'd question the open raise, and then the call


[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I'm not convinced you like money.

I think the flop call is quite thin. There is a fair chance you are behind and getting 5.5:1 you need to find about 8 outs to call.

Re: AJo turning 2pr and hating it...
 

I wouldn't fold to the re-raise PF but I don't think it is terrible or anything. This is actually an easy hand to play as you just call-call-call when you make top pair. If you assume that the dude is sane and repops JJ+/AK then you have about 45% equity when a J flops and 55% when an A hits. You only have about 10% equity on a KJx flop so this is a pretty easy flop fold. You also have position and that really helps. I would still call OOP but you might lose some value when your hand is best. You will always get punished when it is 2nd best so that could turn it into a fold (in a vacuum). If you hit a good flop say 30% of the time and call all 3 streets, your EV would look like...

EV = + 4.5 SB * .3 * .5 - 1 SB * .7 = - .025 SB/hand

You basically breakeven when you flop a pair so all the $$$ that goes in post-flop is chopped up. But lets say that you lose 1 BB of value when your hand is good (will sometimes happen when OOP). If he has KK and the flop is A84 he might decide to check behind on the turn and call a river bet.

EV = + 2.5 SB * .3 * .5 - 1 SB * .7 = - .325 SB/hand

This is obviously simplified but it should get the point across. There are other considerations (image, off chance of hitting a big hand, he might be re-raising lightly) that push it more toward a call. If this were a test question or something and you only looked at the EV of the situation then it might actually be a fold. Probably would be OOP against a non-tricky/tight reraiser. Similar comments if this were the last hand you would ever play but people are going to get tougher if you start raise/folding PF. Any semi-reasonable player is going to start pushing back more often if you do this kind of thing.

As for the hand: Eh I dunno you are getting 3:1 on a calldown but you might be in bad shape. You are only about 30% to win or so against JJ+ and AK. Def fold flop and maybe fold turn.