30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

SB is a total unknown, i think i was just moved, no stats.
SB: 4400 before posting
Hero in BB: 4600

Hero holds X X
Blinds 75/150, we're about 10 minutes after the add on.

Preflop: Folds to SB, SB shoves, hero?

Whats your calling range? WTF in general?

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

some people cant readjust after the rebuy period so i probably call AKs JJ+... also i know its stupid but it probably depends on how many buyins deep i am in this for my range..

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

how do you get in so many of these goofy ass situations i would be surprised to see one once a day

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

IDK, this one was the weirdest in a while.

Some time ago on p5's there was a thread where some guy open shoved like 30 BB's and bodogari snap called Kx (i think 4 or 5) and was like "nobody ever shoves here with any kind of hand, this is a standard call." The guy had like Qx and ari held.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

AA, KK, AK suited, maybe QQ and JJ

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I think you guys are thinking way way to tight here so far.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

maybe this is something i need to do a bit more, or atleast entertain the thought of.. but i just dont like calling off 30bb with a weak K (though i dont play nearly the volume of bda) or with any speculative hand.. i've never been big on making big calls to flip, always feel better as the aggressor.

is my thinking too black and white or am i missing something?

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

prob 88ish+, AQ/AJ+. I'm a little more leery of the aces than the pairs b/c AK makes a lot of sense. Well, nothing makes any sense but he's done this and he has to have something, so...

I think I call AQ tho; people will show up w/ Ax/KQ/44 etc.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are thinking way way to tight here so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? you have an M of 20, no need to go out on a coin flip at this stage. In 2 hands time you'll be on the button.

AA, KK, AK, QQ.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

Pondy,

The goal isn't to avoid going out at this stage, but rather to gather chips.

Bond,

I think I may call as low as TT and AJs+. But I tend to "look people up" for better of worse.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

<--- like to look people up

i think if variance doesn't matter to you, just making a good call against the range he has, i'm calling with a big range here. something along the lines of 99+,Axs+, AT+, KQs.

i think the guy is gonna show up with a hand losing to KQ over 50% of the time. if he turns over AK or AA, he's in the minority.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

now that i think about it, this early i probably add 88, 99, TT to my range and sometimes AQ, though id be more willing to fold AQ than the pairs only because of AK tendencies.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

this strikes me as either

- a donk just trying to steal with any two and overdoing it (sort of the continuation of the rb period)
- a monster repping a above
- a low to mid pair that just wants the chips

as usual read dependent but my inclination would be to say this usually a weak ace or 22-77.

i call with any ace 9 or higher, any pair 88+, and probably anuy suited broadway cards

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I'm calling with 1010+ and AJs+
Most of the time i find a big donkey in this situation wanting to steal blinds at any cost. Still im calling with the above range, because i want to be a 65%+ favorite at least. Hoping for a KJ or a A4 or something like that.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I think like 66+/AJ+/ATs+/KQs as well.

Maybe Ari's right, though. I don't remember ever seeing someone's hand after they shoved here, so I have 0 evidence to back up my hunch that his range is all the good but not great hands.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

77+/AT+

might call lighter out of curiousity

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think like 55+/AJ+/ATs+/KQs as well.

Maybe Ari's right, though. I don't remember ever seeing someone's hand after they shoved here, so I have 0 evidence to back up my hunch that his range is all the good but not great hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

78s the last time I looked one up. And he sucked out. God knows what's right and my range depends on my mood but, in general, I'd like at least one K or A in my hand or 88+.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

Would our range change if pokerdb says:

1) he has big profit

2) he has no stats

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I would only call aa or kk, nothing else. Only because this move is so obviously bad that he probably has aa. Its kinda strange I know but without a read why risk all your stack on a hunch. Thats just me.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm calling with 1010+ and AJs+
Most of the time i find a big donkey in this situation wanting to steal blinds at any cost. Still im calling with the above range, because i want to be a 65%+ favorite at least. Hoping for a KJ or a A4 or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are thinking way way to tight here so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be right, but an unknown for all your chips... AK sure. TT+ sure. Other Aces and Kings no way. I know a lot of weak players who just like to push AK because they hate playing it postflop when they miss. I'd rather call JTs here and flip as a possible 45-55 dog than call off a random K and be a 30-70 dog. But I wouldn't call JTs either heh.

cjx

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would only call aa or kk, nothing else. Only because this move is so obviously bad that he probably has aa. Its kinda strange I know but without a read why risk all your stack on a hunch. Thats just me.

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bad poker unless you are underrolled for the game

it's not a hunch... he's turning over ahand losing to Ax/KQs majority of the time IMHO.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

so you are puttin all your chips at stake with ax or kq? Seems pretty bad to me. what if he has ak (which is extrememly likely). bye bye tourney. Maybe aa or kk is too tight but im the type of player who like to put all my chips in with a good feeling that I am ahead. Ax and kq dont give me that feeling. Also, your thinking that this guy is a donkey yet you have no proof of that. If your calling these crap hands, then you would be the bad player and he just sucked you into giving him all your chips.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
so you are puttin all your chips at stake with ax or kq? Seems pretty bad to me. what if he has ak (which is extrememly likely). bye bye tourney. Maybe aa or kk is too tight but im the type of player who like to put all my chips in with a good feeling that I am ahead. Ax and kq dont give me that feeling. Also, your thinking that this guy is a donkey yet you have no proof of that. If your calling these crap hands, then you would be the bad player and he just sucked you into giving him all your chips.

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Well, he IS a donkey unless he misclicked or something. There's really no reason to overbet the pot the way he did. However I do somewhat agree with you that I'd be tighter than Ax KQ as many are advocating here. Not to mention the fact that having this guy to your right may provide you a better oppurtunity than the 60-40 you might (or just as likely you're a 30-70 dog playing a dominated Ace) be getting right now.

cjx

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I was once watching a $100-$200 NL game with Dan Negran and some no name at pokerroom.com a few years ago. Dan was in sb and this other guy was on the button. Dan had about $23000 in chips and this other guy had around $20,000. Everyone folded and guy on button goes all in (I know cash vs tourney is a little different but similar thought processes). Dan thinks for a while and says let's gamble and turns over qq, button has aa and Dan leaves table. Im just showing that they guy isn't always a donkey when that move is made because like all of you, you presume he is weak. The more I hear you guys talk about it the more I'd like to try it if I do get aa or kk in that position.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

When I see this I assume the hand is AK or a small to medium pocket pair and react accordingly. Sometimes it's AA and I get stacked.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

In actual hand i held AJ and called.

Villain showed QT. GG villain.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would only call aa or kk, nothing else. Only because this move is so obviously bad that he probably has aa. Its kinda strange I know but without a read why risk all your stack on a hunch. Thats just me.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl at folding QQ here. That is inconceivable. If he just happens to be even capable of doing this with KK or AA EVER (95%+ players aren't, including me), and this just happens to be one such instance, and we just happen to have QQ behind him in the BB... then gg us! Seriously, that's just ridiculous

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

Last time I looked up someone who shoved 20 bbs from sb, I looked him up w/ A9o. He was a relatively aggro player in the short span that we had played together and he had stolen my blind a couple times already. Anyways, A9 > AK. I went on to get 7th that tourney, I believe.

Anyways, for your hand, I prob call 88+/AJ+, though I prob chicken out w/ AJ/88 since you have no read.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

I sometimes make massive overbets in the first 20-30 minutes after the add-on, but only ever with a monster. I've usually been quite manic during the re-buy period and i'm hoping people will be wanting to look me up and therefore be calling a lot.

In this spot i'd be worried that villain was thinking the same way and my range wud be v tight - 1010+,AK

If this was the same stacks and blinds after 70 minutes of a non re-buy i'd be more convinced that villain was a donkey and have a considerably wider calling range. It still wudna include K4 tho.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

[ QUOTE ]
IDK, this one was the weirdest in a while.

Some time ago on p5's there was a thread where some guy open shoved like 30 BB's and bodogari snap called Kx (i think 4 or 5) and was like "nobody ever shoves here with any kind of hand, this is a standard call." The guy had like Qx and ari held.

[/ QUOTE ]

I limped from SB to BB and he pushed. I def did not snap call, and was being sarcastic when i said it was a standard call. However, here I'd say firstly that it's very player dependent, and that you'd prob. have the best idea of what you should call with. Having said that, in the blind, you gotta assume you're playing w/ someone who is not very good. Therefore, maybe it's incorrect but i'll take out of his range jj+, figuring classic weak=strong, and he's gonna want to get some value out of those hands.

Next, I'd db him. Is he Stars regular-ie. more likely to be hyper aggro, does he win tournies, does he a bunch of small scores. You know the usual to figure out what kind of scared poker he's playing.

I don't know what this all leads to, but i'll just give a calling range for fun, 55+, a8+, a5sooted+, kq- i don't know, i dont see myself calling.

Re: 30 BB shove from the SB Stars 50/r/a
 

That's a really weird range ari. A8 is a much worse hand than KQ/55 against most ranges.