Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

I have been playing more aggressively for ~1000 hands but worry that I'm going too far with it.

Would check/called on the river have been better after the 3-bet? Check/fold? Should the the two pair A+7 be considered a made hand?

BB: 66/0.6/0.5
MP1: no read

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

3bet flop. I'm tempted to cap the turn.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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3bet flop.

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I have problems doing this when I am out of position. If the flush misses on turn, I am not sure what the best play is, in general.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

I check/raise the flop rather than leading since it has a better chance of trapping the BB.

As played, I'd 3bet the flop.

I'd play the turn the same.

I don't get the river bet though. The 8 didn't improve our hand and isn't a logical scare card to represent. So if we're not ahead enough to cap the turn, I don't think we should lead the river. Plus, if BB is also drawing to the flush or a straight, he'd call a turn cap (more money for us) while still folding on the river if he misses. As played, I'd check/call the river.

And yes, your aces up is a made hand.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

Checkraise the flop instead of betting into the guy.
Turn looks good. I wouldn't go 4 bets against an unknown even though only a couple hands beat you.
I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

You have a mighty fine busted flush. I wouldn't show much in the way of mercy with this. I suspect you are ahead here far more often than not.

Nix is right though. Not much point calling the turn 3-bet and lead the river. Keep attacking or slam the brakes I says. (I lean towards keep pushing)

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

Again, in a typical game, I'd fold pf. I'm with the c/r here. As long as you stay 3handed, nothing that happens on the flop can cost you money, but you have to make sure that BB stays in the hand. If you bet, MP1 will most likely raise and face BB with 2 cold. Better c/r the original raiser and trap BB, wich might have the added benefit that if you don't improve on the turn, MP1 might be too scared to bet again.

After his 3bet, I call down. His line is very consistent with AJ, JJ, AA. On the other hand, you have to be quite aggressive to raise AK/AQ on the flop with suits that don't match this board too much (which must be the case as you have the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. So he can have at most a bdfd). So in short: while it's not unthinkable that he's aggro enough to raise the flop with his two overs alone, it's more likly that he does that with some sort of draw to go with them (if he has unimoproved overs at all), so I'm slightly worried about AJ here and call down.
River donk makes no sense.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

I like a 3bet flop and lead turn.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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3bet flop. I'm tempted to cap the turn.

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wookie. I dont see the difference between this hand and this thread which you helped me on.

Both involve a pair and flush draw on the flop with hero being OOP against aggression. IN both hands the hero's pair likely isn't good but he has tons of equity. Both hands also feature a third party who's just going along for the ride and padding hte pot.

My guesses:

1. There, drawing to two-pair Qs and Ts is much weaker than drawing to two pair As and 7s because overcards can pair in the QT hand counterfieting your hand, but not here. (well the J could pair counterfieting your 2-pair and possibly exposing you to trips, but if you'd now be splitting instead of being behind)


2. If the Q came in the QTs hand, there is a redraw to straights or a straight could be out there, though unlikely. Here there is no threat.

3. Not sure how correct this is but a 3-bet is less dangerous to villian than a cap. In a 3-bet he still might cap allowing you to c/r if you improve the turn. But if you cap he will slow down and you won't get 2 bets out of him on the turn. Still, many people slow down to a 3-bet.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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Again, in a typical game, I'd fold pf.

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Which time? Playing Axs from early position in normal micro loose-passive games is plenty +EV.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

... yeah, that's the remnants of that dusty SSHE tight games chart...

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

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River bet was for value after the 8 that was probably no help to the villain. I decided that I had the best hand and would bet in case he checked after me.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

I 3-bet the flop and call a cap.

I would lead the turn and just call down from there without any further improvement.

On the flop, your hand is extremely strong and can withstand a lot of head, hence my advocation for 3-betting. Lead the turn because you improved, and it sets up a nice river C/R if you improve further.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

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River bet was for value after the 8 that was probably no help to the villain. I decided that I had the best hand and would bet in case he checked after me.

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You are correct, but you just need to have that thought a little earlier and raise the turn. If you decide on the river that you are ahead when the card doesn't help you, than you should have felt you were ahead on the turn and value bet/raised.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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I 3-bet the flop and call a cap.

I would lead the turn and just call down from there without any further improvement.

On the flop, your hand is extremely strong and can withstand a lot of head, hence my advocation for 3-betting. Lead the turn because you improved, and it sets up a nice river C/R if you improve further.

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Really? I've not tried that. My suspicion is that villains seeing me 3-bet flop and lead turn, would be happy to check through on the river if I don't bet it. I usually make sure to lead the river to make sure I get at least one more bet in. Hmmm.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

I mean, if he raises the turn, you call down.

Lead the river if he just calls the turn and/or you improve.

Don't FPS a C/R. But try one if he raises the turn (and your improve).

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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your hand is extremely strong and can withstand a lot of head

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That's what she said.

(In honor of the holiday...)

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

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River bet was for value after the 8 that was probably no help to the villain. I decided that I had the best hand and would bet in case he checked after me.

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If this is the case, then yeah, I stand by capping the turn instead (especially with BB playing his hand like a draw). The common reason I would have for calling a turn raise and then donking the river UI is I had a read that Villain uses free showdown raises. Without knowing that, I'd assume he'd bet the river like 100% of the time on a non-scare card.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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[ QUOTE ]
...
I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

River bet was for value after the 8 that was probably no help to the villain. I decided that I had the best hand and would bet in case he checked after me.

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If you thought you had the best hand, you also had it on the turn, so you should've capped when you had the other guy trapped.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

"grunch"

I would have checked on the flop and called his probable bet. On the turn I would have check-raised and if he came over the top then call to a show down. If he doesn't come over the top then bet to the showdown. The only realistic hands villian can have that should concern you are A-A, A-J and J-J. Looks to me like he's playing A-K.

I did miss A-J originally.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

[ QUOTE ]
"grunch"

I would have checked on the flop and called his probable bet. On the turn I would have check-raised and if he came over the top then call to a show down. If he doesn't come over the top then bet to the showdown. The only realistic hands villian can have that should concern you are A-A and J-J. Looks to me like he's playing A-K.

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You forgot AJ and AK looks unreasonable the way he played the flop.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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Checkraise the flop instead of betting into the guy.
Turn looks good. I wouldn't go 4 bets against an unknown even though only a couple hands beat you.
I don't get the river bet at all. What was it trying to accomplish?

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End of thread right here. This is all that needs to be said.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

Welcome to the boards. I would c/r the flop.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

grunch

i'd say this is standard, although i wouldn't be surprised if BB flips 69 or 9T here.

Re: Busted flush leaves 2-pair
 

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3bet flop. I'm tempted to cap the turn.

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wookie. I dont see the difference between this hand and this thread which you helped me on.

Both involve a pair and flush draw on the flop with hero being OOP against aggression. IN both hands the hero's pair likely isn't good but he has tons of equity. Both hands also feature a third party who's just going along for the ride and padding hte pot.

My guesses:

1. There, drawing to two-pair Qs and Ts is much weaker than drawing to two pair As and 7s because overcards can pair in the QT hand counterfieting your hand, but not here. (well the J could pair counterfieting your 2-pair and possibly exposing you to trips, but if you'd now be splitting instead of being behind)


2. If the Q came in the QTs hand, there is a redraw to straights or a straight could be out there, though unlikely. Here there is no threat.

3. Not sure how correct this is but a 3-bet is less dangerous to villian than a cap. In a 3-bet he still might cap allowing you to c/r if you improve the turn. But if you cap he will slow down and you won't get 2 bets out of him on the turn. Still, many people slow down to a 3-bet.

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Part of it was that 3betting the flop isn't as likely to slow people down as much as capping. Part of it was that I wasn't paying attention. I would c/r this flop instead.