Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

Foxwoods 10-25. Opponent came to the game a half hour ago, I've never played with him before but by reputation have heard he is a strong player. He bought in for over $10,000 and has the table covered. He's seemed to be loose aggressive so far, especially in position (he raised with 52s one hand).

I've been playing fairly tight in the brief time he's been at the table.

I start the hand with $3,300.

Two limpers, I limp in the cutoff+1 with 89o (no hearts), opponent makes it 125 to go from the cutoff, the limpers call, I call.

$575 in pot

7c Th Qh

The limpers check, I check.

1. Opponent bets $400. Limpers fold. I think this guy could have any two cards. How should I play this?

2. Assume I think for over a minute, then check-raise to $1,200, then opponent insta-pushes. I'm getting 5:2 pot odds. Given how I've seen him play, and that my taking so long to check-raise could have been perceived as weakness, I think my opponent's range here is still pretty wide. Should I call?

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

i dont like the check raise, i would just check call. try to bluff the flush if it hits.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

im not good with the math but even if his range is wide it looks like ur drawing to a maximum of 8 outs. plus, i dont think his range is really as wide as you think- i fold here for sure

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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i dont like the check raise, i would just check call. try to bluff the flush if it hits.

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i like this in position g-p. whats your plan if turn is a heart? or if turn bricks since u r oop.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf. making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.

As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum. 2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf.

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This is questionable: villain is most likely betting this flop so a check/raise with a made hand isn't out of the question. Also, people slowplay in all sorts of weird spots.
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making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.


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The real problem with it is that it commits hero to calling an all-in and you generally don't want to commit yourself to all-in without actually going all in.
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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum.


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This is laughably wrong:3 limp/callers are not much to worry about when you have position. A good lag has no problems betting into many opponents if they're weak enough.
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2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

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Or he has a flush draw and your pair outs are good, but yeah: if he pushes you're not in great shape but you still have to call.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf. making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.

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In hindsight, I agree the check-raise looks a little fishy, especially when I thought about it for so long. I think he read this as weakness, hence his instapush. So do you check-call? And what happens if I miss the turn, check-fold?

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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum. 2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

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I think his continuation bet could be any 2, but I agree that once he pushes, his range is more narrow (its certainly not air). I still think he could have any flush draw (not just the nut flush draw), AA, KK, QQ, JJ (that would suck), TT, 77, and maybe AQ or KQ. If he has JJ or a set then I am getting the worst of it if I call (but not by a lot), otherwise I think I am getting the best of it (again, not by much) if I call.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

FF, how would you play the flop?

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum.


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This is laughably wrong:3 limp/callers are not much to worry about when you have position. A good lag has no problems betting into many opponents if they're weak enough.


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FF, From villain's perspective, his table image, the combination of 3 limp/callers and the extremely draw heavy flop, I think Villain would be especially wary of cbetting lite here. Obviously, a good lag will bet into opponents when weak if he/she believes the pot can be bought, but there is a big difference between being a good lag and spewing.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

"Assume I think for over a minute, then check-raise to $1,200"
i would raise more on flop or bet3bet. or do the once in a blue moon suicidal mini raise(or close to it to setup psb on turn) and move in on turn.bbbbbbbboooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

call flop and reevaluate on the turn. there are a lot of cards you could bluff at.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

FF is he really priced into a call here?

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after you checkraise you've got:
3300-125-1200 = 1975 left,
and there's 525+2400+1975 = 4900 in the pot to win
so you've got to be right 1975/4900 % of the time to win = 40% of the time. (Which is what you said)

Twodimes has you at:
70-30 to any a pair higher than your 9
71-29 to a flush draw with an overcard to your 9
coinflipping with a flush draw that doesn't have an overcard to your heart.

I'd say if you checkraise you have to fold to a push. Random crap like 5h6h just doesn't make up a high enough percentage of his range unless my math is off.

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but after you checkraise you've got:
3300-125-1200 = 1975 left,
and there's 525+2400+1975 = 4900 in the pot to win
so you've got to be right 1975/4900 % of the time to win = 40% of the time. (Which is what you said)

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Your formula is wrong. I have to win a little less than 29% of the time for this call to be profitable (1975/(1975+4910)). (Think about it this way: if I was exactly a 2-1 dog, I would only have to win 1 time in 3 to break even, not one time in 2, which is what your formula implies).

Here I am probably slightly worse than 2-1 against his range of hands, but I am getting about 2.5 - 1.

Against his range of hands, I think a call is correct (not by a lot).

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum.


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This is laughably wrong:3 limp/callers are not much to worry about when you have position. A good lag has no problems betting into many opponents if they're weak enough.


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FF, From villain's perspective, his table image, the combination of 3 limp/callers and the extremely draw heavy flop, I think Villain would be especially wary of cbetting lite here. Obviously, a good lag will bet into opponents when weak if he/she believes the pot can be bought, but there is a big difference between being a good lag and spewing.

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a) I think people fold in this spot more often than you think OOP
b) He doesn't have to be c-betting lite here: TT/JJ for example is an easy bet here against players who aren't going to play back at you with worse hands (which is probably how villain views everyone in the hand). Saying AQ/KQ at a minimum is his range for betting here is just silly

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

1) quit dicking around with 98o

2) the flop is raise is poor precisely because you don't know how to react to a push

3) I think you're right that a call is slightly +EV; get ready for unlimited action for the rest of the night when you flip those two babies over

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

the problem with playing oop against people like this is that when u do something silly like cehck raise with a straight draw on a board like this, they are SHOVING almost any flush draw or KJ or J9 type hand they have, or any overpair, etc, especially if hes as aggro as you say. i dont like a CR one bit. folding flop is fine, as is check calling, maybe bluffing flush outs. holla

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

#1 checkraise obv..

#2 if you want to gamble..

Re: Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board
 

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(he raised with 52s one hand).

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This is standard now a days. the true lags raise with 5-2o.

as for the hand obv. call and bluff with
your stack when flush hits.