Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

I don't post hands here often, but this was a strange hand. Villain is ChillCheebah, who is relatively new to the 10/20, but is killing it as far as I can tell. He seems quite solid, and also capable of moves/creativity. We have been battling across several tables for some time at this point, and he has been getting the best of it. His stats are 19/16/3.5. He continuation bets nearly every flop in my experience.

I won't post the results of the hand or my thoughts for now. I'm interested to hear opinions first. Comments on all streets are appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($1705.52)
Hero ($1943)
MP ($2309.37)
Button ($2792.50)
SB ($5052.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $239</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $169.

Flop: ($508) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($508) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $300</font>, Hero calls $300.

River: ($1108) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $999</font>, Hero calls $999.

Final Pot: $3106

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

I think you played this hand fine.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Surprised to hear that, I thought it was ugly.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Well, I'd usually fold turn here quite a bit of course, but other than that I don't see many other options (except leading flop but that's just result-oriented). Against some players I could fold river as well after calling turn (i.e as played), against some others I would call nearly all of the time.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

You don't think checking flop here is awful? Regardless of outcome? As soon as I did it I regretted it.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Why? I assumed by "cb:ing" you also meant he's following through nearly all of the time when he has 3-bet, otherwise the information isn't superrelevant. You will obviously not fold if he raises you when you lead, and if you check I'm guessing it was with the intention of c/r:ing his bet that you expected nearly all of the time.

I mean, if you in fact meant that he isn't following through when 3-betting at all as often as in a single-raised pot, i.e that he's very often checking behind AK here (which is the correct play a lot of the time), then all that I've written isn't viable of course.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Yeah, I meant he bets nearly every flop after 3-betting. Doesn't a check/raise in this situation let him get away from AA/AK to easily? Whereas a lead might not let him get away?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Yeah, I kind of got a bit hasty there writing a c/r, wasn't really focusing on that part, it's actually a bad move. Well, I'd actually rather, if he's betting AA/AK nearly all of the time, check/call and then lead turn. If I have reason to suspect he's checking those two hands behind a lot, then I'd definitely lead here directly on the flop. It puts him in SOMEWHAT an equal predicament (the only difference is that we definitely look much less "bluffy" if we c/c flop as opposed to just leading at at like a stab, but I think that by turn, if he's called, our lead is going to look pretty much equally strong regardless of we lead or c/c:ed flop anyway), but with the advantage that we picks up on this continuation bet all the time, which is, in most cases, all we will get out of him.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

MDMA,

Once I go for the flop c/r (a questionable move), what do you think of the rest of the hand? I believe agains this opponent that a river fold is at least in the equation, no?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

As I said, flop c/r was just hasty writing; I much more prefer, given desc, a c/c and a turnlead instead (except on an A of course like in this situation). As for river in how this went, I wrote above; some guys I'd fold a LOT to, some I would call all the time. Basically, the better he is, the more I'd be inclined to fold, given that I feel a good player is actually gonna check a queen on river here most of the time.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Alright, gotcha. He ended up having AK. I time banked all the way down, but made the call

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

Yah, I'm kind of surprised to see him bet AK on turn really, I would have checked it behind again. As soon as he bets river, though, I'd actually put him more often on AA than AK, given that AA is prob just a little bit more inclined to bet turn (even though I'd usually just check that as well) than AK.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

I fold river. He is either betting the turn with the nuts, or 2p(generally an ace). I really dont like the river call, given his Pt stats, I am assuming his 3b range isnt terribly loose. Given that, what is he betting that you beat aside from the straight(which seems somewhat rediculous) and a bluff? I like a fold here. I also lead flop.

This may seem terrible, but I wouldnt mind leading the turn. I think you get anything but the nuts here to fold, and there are only a few hands he may have that would be consistent with his range, and make the straight. Its late, ive been drinking some so take this as you will. I def fold river though. gl, gn

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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I fold river. He is either betting the turn with the nuts, or 2p(generally an ace). I really dont like the river call, given his Pt stats, I am assuming his 3b range isnt terribly loose. Given that, what is he betting that you beat aside from the straight(which seems somewhat rediculous) and a bluff? I like a fold here. I also lead flop.

Leading flop is of course standard here. We flopped middle set in a raised pot on a very drawy board.

IMO, as the hand played out, leading the turn is bad. There is simply very little to gain in comparison to checking the turn.

This may seem terrible, but I wouldnt mind leading the turn. I think you get anything but the nuts here to fold, and there are only a few hands he may have that would be consistent with his range, and make the straight. Its late, ive been drinking some so take this as you will. I def fold river though. gl, gn

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Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

lol cmon guys after he bets the turn here you cannot fold the river.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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lol cmon guys after he bets the turn here you cannot fold the river.

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why not?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

what exactly does he beat on the river?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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lol cmon guys after he bets the turn here you cannot fold the river.

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why not?

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u just cant expect a good player to bet 2pr or set on the turn w/ this board.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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lol cmon guys after he bets the turn here you cannot fold the river.

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why not?

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u just cant expect a good player to bet 2pr or set on the turn w/ this board.

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what about the straight?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

"what about the straight?"

yes a good player bets the straight here and thats probably why you should call the river

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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lol cmon guys after he bets the turn here you cannot fold the river.

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why not?

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u just cant expect a good player to bet 2pr or set on the turn w/ this board.

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what about the straight?

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huh? of course any1 can bet the turn w/ the nuts, but i doubt a Q would VB that river.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

No way is a Q VB'ing the river here. Unless he has AQ and doesnt think you have an ace, in which he can bet this river in hopes of getting you off a chop pot, and other boats such as yours.

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

OP, if a K or T hit on the river instead of the ace, would you push?

Re: Weird JJ hand (Party 10/20)
 

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This may seem terrible, but I wouldnt mind leading the turn. I think you get anything but the nuts here to fold, and there are only a few hands he may have that would be consistent with his range, and make the straight.

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Leading the turn can give a better idea where you stand. If he makes a significant raise, you obviously have to lay it down. This move seems like it could save you some money on the river.