Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

typical $200nl lagtard. i've been pounding on him since he never folds and is sitting on my immediate left, also just rivered a str8 against him.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($294.45)
Button ($189.65)
SB ($129)
BB ($108)
UTG ($58.15)
MP1 ($160.10)
MP2 ($86)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($19) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, Button calls $12, BB folds.

Turn: ($43) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $26</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $171.65</font>, Hero: ?

turn bet ok?

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

I probably puke and call, hoping that he's tilting and spewing because of the history. This is so borderline that it really depends on my read of villain.

Your flop bet is too small, especially on such a drawy board. I bet more like $16 as a standard c-bet, possibly even more due to the drawy board. I bet more on turn too, so as not to look weak against the kind of LAG like this who might pounce when he senses weakness.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

[ QUOTE ]
turn bet ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. Especially if you don't know what to do when he raises. There are multiple draws out there and you won't know which cards you will like to see on the river. If you bet more, you cut down his implied odds, and you also make it much less likely that he will raise you with a worse hand so that you can correctly fold if needed.

Although if he's super-LAGtarded and you still won't be comfortable folding (but not happy calling either) then there is an argument for just checking and letting him do all the betting for you, since he will be betting with all his draws and worse made hands. But if he bets pot twice then he'll end up pretty much all-in anyway, so in this particular spot there isn't much benefit to this line (unless there are some hands you have crushed which will keep betting if checked to, but will fold to more pressure).

btw, this is not a good flop for such a small bet either, due to all the draws. Top two is not a hand you are going to let go of very easily even if a draw hits, so make sure to get value from your hand when you can be almost certain it's ahead.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

well insta-call from the description obviously

I wouldn't mind check/raising the turn, or leading for pot on the turn

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

the weak turn bet is ok if you think he will sense weakness and come over the top

otherwise make it to 37 or so bet more on the flop also

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

bet more on the flop, more on the turn, insta-call as played...

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

flop looks weak because i wanted to get raised. unless he flopped a set of 8s, i was surely a big favorite.

turn is where it seems to go bad, i desperately wanted a cheap showdown. lets say i pot the turn, he pushes, do i still call?

what hands can call the flop, push the turn that i can lose to here?

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

potfloppotfloppotflop

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

yo peeps! get help, give help. i've been giving and now give back.

lets say i pot the turn, he pushes, do i still call?

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

I make it $8 pre, I bet $18 on flop, $40 on turn and call a push.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

I wonder if you have to play the same if the turn is a heart.

If I check the turn , I am always afraid to be betted ( is it a bluff or not ), so I bet again and do not put any more money in ...

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

Generally bet more on the flop and turn (especially the turn, I can understand if your flop bet is the amount you always c-bet). If he floats a lot I guess you could check the turn but betting is better IMO - you are only behind AA,KK,JJ and 8X and you would expect him to raise PF with the first 3 and if he never folds then why not keep betting.

On the river, it's just whether or not you believe he has and 8 somehow. If he is prone to large bluffs then I guess it's a call. Against some players you could ditch it but when you are going at it with someone it's tough to lay it down when your turn bet looks weak and it almost asking for it.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

[ QUOTE ]
potfloppotturncallshove

[/ QUOTE ]

You just rivered a straight on him and you've been firing at him nonstop AND he's was laggy before that? I instacall and dont think twice about it. If he has an 8, nihannihan.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

I'd probably check-call on a heart turn and call non-heart river.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

Both your flop and turn bets are too small. This guy calls pot sized bets with FDs, OESDs,...
You got yourself in a situation where you have a really close decision. I`d still call.

RESULT.
 

i called, villain showed 8-10 unsuited/no heart in sight. WTF? glad to know i was doomed from the start. maybe several more dollars on the flop might of saved me, but i doubt it. you should of seen this guy. i sat there as he spewed a $150 of my money in less than 20 mins, and he never even made it to a single river. good times.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

I wish you hadn't posted the results yet, but I'll post this anyway.

When you step back and add everything up (especially the hand as played), he's got an eight.

A LAG that has been getting pounded on and just got rivered is raising this flop with a draw.

I too would have bet more on the flop and turn. But when thinking clearly, I fold to the shove. He's hoping you'll construct a hand that you can beat and using his overall image and recent events to help you do so.

Of course I don't know what happened after this hand, but I think you might have cost yourself even more money by not finding this fold. Having succeeded, odds are he'll now be playing better. Were you to disappoint him, my guess is that he'd be pretty pissed - especially if he gets the impression that you made a good fold. Not only would he then be playing even worse, he'd probably be gunning for you.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

Bet more on flop and turn, call river. Also,
[ QUOTE ]
yo peeps! get help, give help. i've been giving and now give back.


[/ QUOTE ] lol? You have 21 posts...

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

[ QUOTE ]
...but I think you might have cost yourself even more money by not finding this fold. Having succeeded, odds are he'll now be playing better.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
....you should of seen this guy. i sat there as he spewed a $150 of my money in less than 20 mins, and he never even made it to a single river. good times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

lol? You have 21 posts...

...on this account. just bored and mixing it up. i'm not a post-whore, that's just too gay.

Re: Top 2 vs. lagtard.......
 

Why are you referencing part of what I wrote in isolation?

It is true that I didn't take that part of the results post into account. Indeed sometimes subsequent action has bearing in terms of reevaluating a situation, but I don't think that's the case here.

In some ways you're actually highlighting an aspect of my post: it doesn't appear as if you "got back" any of "your money."