AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Villan is TAG and has a wide re-raising range.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($3137.50)
Button ($1000)
SB ($3285.50)
BB ($1000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $35</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $118</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero?</font>

<font color="blue"> I know this isn't small stakes, but I'm new to nl1000 and I don't think msnl will be too helpful on this one. </font>

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

this is tough given stack sizes and number of plalyers at the table.

Like you say, the villain probably has a wide reraising range here. So I'd tend to 4-bet the hand. However, now you're really defining your hand for the villain and also creating a very large pot that will be hard for you to get away from with an over-pair (...you're probably good enough to get away from this hand, but it's still going to suck). However, I don't necessarily like to play for pot control preflop when you have position the rest of the hand.

Here are two options:

CALL: And slow play it a little on most flops. Since the villain is a 2p2er, he'll lead the flop 95% of the time. As long as it's not a super-draw heavy flop, I'd probably call most flops. Then I'd hope the villain will lead most turns in which hero should raise and fold to a reraise.

RERAISE: I'd probably bet most flops and slow down for pot control if the villain calls.

PUSH It negates your positional advantage. But it's never a horrible option if the villain will call with KK this deep.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

I'd pop this up to $365-375, and go from there

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

You're in position here, call and get on with the hand. I don't just reraise as I would on a ss table.

Cam

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

how many hands had you been 4betting?

I can't see any reason not to 4bet here really

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Gorilla Boy -

Do you have anymore context for the hand?
How long have your been playing short-handed?
Have you and the villain been tangling?
How does the villain regard you?
Has anyone 4-bet preflop, yet?

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Given the stack size I would go for about $400 thus negating him any implied odd with any hand. After that I would try to find a way to have all my money in on the flop/turn. Anyway that might be much too clear at this stake... Are you sure you shouldn't put this thread in the MSNL forum ? By the way what is your table image ? How did he build is stack ? How did you ? You have said that he has a wide reraising range while being TAG, what about calling/pushing preflop if you 3bet him, will he need a very strong hand or can he plays with marginal hands ?

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

I think you have to protect your stack here and 4-bet rather than give him a cheapish flop, although there are merits for slowplaying your aces here. All depends on how comfortable you are with them postflop with the deep stacks.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

LOL

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

im 4betting every time with these stacks.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

I think you're deep enough to 4-bet a reasonably wide range of hands.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Call hope he leads out on the flop and does not hit his set. Pot size re raise after he bets tht flop.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

dude i would 4-bet to $400 with AQ+, and 99+. definitely just make this $400.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is tough given stack sizes and number of plalyers at the table.

Like you say, the villain probably has a wide reraising range here. So I'd tend to 4-bet the hand. However, now you're really defining your hand for the villain and also creating a very large pot that will be hard for you to get away from with an over-pair (...you're probably good enough to get away from this hand, but it's still going to suck). However, I don't necessarily like to play for pot control preflop when you have position the rest of the hand.

Here are two options:

CALL: And slow play it a little on most flops. Since the villain is a 2p2er, he'll lead the flop 95% of the time. As long as it's not a super-draw heavy flop, I'd probably call most flops. Then I'd hope the villain will lead most turns in which hero should raise and fold to a reraise.

RERAISE: I'd probably bet most flops and slow down for pot control if the villain calls.

PUSH It negates your positional advantage. But it's never a horrible option if the villain will call with KK this deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that I like my preflop call line anymore. I was playing around with the numbers and it looks like it leads to awkard stack sizes on the turn if we raise.

So if we call preflop. I like two different lines.
1) If villain continuation bets the flop, then I think raising and fold to a reraise.
2) If villain continuation bets on a dry flop, I like calling down to the river. If he checks the river, I think you can usually throw in a small value bet.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gorilla Boy -

Do you have anymore context for the hand?
How long have your been playing short-handed?
Have you and the villain been tangling?
How does the villain regard you?
Has anyone 4-bet preflop, yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was short-handed for a few rounds before this.
We were staying out of each others way because there was a huge fish at the table, this was the first time anyone 4-bet. I was 3-betting the fish a lot and playing some big pot with him light, so I was probably seen as TAG, maybe a bit crazy.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

By reraising him you are narrowing down your hand range for your opponent. Because of that I typically want to put in a large reraise, so that he cannot call profitably and may be inticed to go broke on a certain flops now that the pot has become so large (if he calls).

Of course, you occasionally will be calling reraises with your suited connectors and pairs, looking to hit a flop. To balance this, I will occasionally also just call with KK/AA for added deceptiveness.

Ness

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

300BB deep. you must 4bet this. Make it 475+

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Hey Gorilla Boy -

Thanks for the added context. As Ness alluded to, a case can be made for either a 4-bet or a call.

Can we play along with you on the rest of the hand?

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

Gorrila Boy,

i would just call and take a flop here unless you have been 4-betting a fair amount. now i generally don't 4-bet much when i have position because it's easier to just take a flop and go from there, so i would do that here. i would be looking to play a decent size pot, maybe $1000 exchanges hands. still very good for AA. by 4-betting you are:

a) risking $3000, because you likely (lol) intend on playing for full stacks on any board
b) losing a lot of bluffing action... he is sure to be bluffing a lot postflop for metagame purposes
c) less likely to win a decent pot off TT/JJ postflop

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

did he have 66?

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gorilla Boy -

Do you have anymore context for the hand?
How long have your been playing short-handed?
Have you and the villain been tangling?
How does the villain regard you?
Has anyone 4-bet preflop, yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was short-handed for a few rounds before this.
We were staying out of each others way because there was a huge fish at the table, this was the first time anyone 4-bet. I was 3-betting the fish a lot and playing some big pot with him light, so I was probably seen as TAG, maybe a bit crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a good reason to 4 bet here.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

ESPECIALLY against this particular villain

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does 4-betting help this? Because he'll fold his hand a large percentage of the time?

IMO, 4-betting just defines our hand and makes a big pot that is harder to get away from with our overpair.

Plus if we do hit our set, we're not going to get any action from any other hand, other than the unlikely lower set.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does 4-betting help this? Because he'll fold his hand a large percentage of the time?

IMO, 4-betting just defines our hand and makes a big pot that is harder to get away from with our overpair.

Plus if we do hit our set, we're not going to get any action from any other hand, other than the unlikely lower set.

[/ QUOTE ]

reduces implied odds

True

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does 4-betting help this? Because he'll fold his hand a large percentage of the time?

IMO, 4-betting just defines our hand and makes a big pot that is harder to get away from with our overpair.

Plus if we do hit our set, we're not going to get any action from any other hand, other than the unlikely lower set.

[/ QUOTE ]

reduces implied odds

True

[/ QUOTE ]

duh... that was easy. I just didn't take the time to do the basic math.

i thought we were so deep that he'd always be getting the odds to hit his set.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does 4-betting help this? Because he'll fold his hand a large percentage of the time?

IMO, 4-betting just defines our hand and makes a big pot that is harder to get away from with our overpair.

Plus if we do hit our set, we're not going to get any action from any other hand, other than the unlikely lower set.

[/ QUOTE ]

it cuts off implied odds. also, his 3-betting range is so WIDE that hero should be 4-betting a variety of the hands that he opens with - not just AA.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as stack sizes increase, the value of one pair goes down, dramatically. 4-bet this &gt;90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does 4-betting help this? Because he'll fold his hand a large percentage of the time?

IMO, 4-betting just defines our hand and makes a big pot that is harder to get away from with our overpair.

Plus if we do hit our set, we're not going to get any action from any other hand, other than the unlikely lower set.

[/ QUOTE ]

it cuts off implied odds. also, his 3-betting range is so WIDE that hero should be 4-betting a variety of the hands that he opens with - not just AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i didn't pay good enough intentions to the ratio of stack sizes to the 4-bet.

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

you should have posted about postflop. there's something wrong if i flopped a boat and then stacked your UI AA for 300bb+. did you really think i had something worse than AA?

preflop you should 4bet to 400-500 or so

Re: AA Deep vs 2p2er
 

VP,

The idea was if I get preflop right it doesn't matter what I do post flop a lot of the time.

Yes, I convinced myself you had KK - your small turn lead threw me.