Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

So I posted this
threadabout how I have lost 60k in 20 40 6max and thanks to broke my foot.
I'm now on a mission to try win it back! I will post some hands i'm unsure and try to response other peoples threads too ( hopefully I wont get flamed too much for bad advice [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] )

First hand: I just lost a pot and i'm steaming a bit. 3 handed tight(32/16) player openraises from button and I 3 bet Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] he caps and I call. Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4: club: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check call. Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I check-raise he 3bets and I call. River 3 :club and I check-call.

Good?

3 handed. I open raise T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] from button tight SB(34/24) 3 bets loose BB(56/4) calls and I cap. Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] checked to me I bet and the BB calls. Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] he chekraises i 3 bet and he caps. River 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I call.

Little too agressive?

I open raise Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 :diamond UTG in 5 handed. Tight player from hand 1 3 bets and I cap. Flop 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he bets I raise he 3 bets and I call.
Turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] check-check
River K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] check-check

Good?

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Party screenname? PM me. I'll look at hands you played in my database.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Hand one, fold preflop, just check/call turn, check/fold river now unless he's tilting too.

Hand two, fold to turn c/r. I'd be tempted to just check turn.

Hand three, fold preflop, just call the preflop 3-bet, just call the flop bet and fold the turn unimproved.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Why did you 3-bet the turn in hand 2?

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you 3-bet the turn in hand 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain clearly has the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

I had seen him semibluff raise flush draw couple times.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I posted this
threadabout how I have lost 60k in 20 40 6max and thanks to broke my foot.
I'm now on a mission to try win it back! I will post some hands i'm unsure and try to response other peoples threads too ( hopefully I wont get flamed too much for bad advice [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] )

First hand: I just lost a pot and i'm steaming a bit. 3 handed tight(32/16) player openraises from button and I 3 bet Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] he caps and I call. Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4: club: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check call. Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I check-raise he 3bets and I call. River 3 :club and I check-call.

Good?

3 handed. I open raise T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] from button tight SB(34/24) 3 bets loose BB(56/4) calls and I cap. Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] checked to me I bet and the BB calls. Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] he chekraises i 3 bet and he caps. River 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I call.

Little too agressive?

I open raise Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 :diamond UTG in 5 handed. Tight player from hand 1 3 bets and I cap. Flop 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he bets I raise he 3 bets and I call.
Turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] check-check
River K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] check-check

Good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey,

you seem very loose and aggressive. That's fine if you can finesse people into making mistakes post-flop and bet your hands for value but it looks like it's the other way around right now. All three of these hands are very spewy for the reasons people gave already. I would cut down the number of hands you play until you learn how to play marginal hands more cautiously after the flop.

Ex: 3-beting the turn in hand 2 is pretty spewy, but I could see where in some situations this would be OK. He caps you. You have to fold here against a sane player.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yea I know. I used to be more solid about (28/22) back when Stoxtrader coached me and I played ton 30 60 and higher and won and played good. The [censored] happened in personal life, I got kocky and decided I dont need to listen the idiot anymore. So I began just playing very loose.

Here is about my preflop openings(the hand named is in the range) now how bad does it look:
UTG A6-AKo A2s+, KTo+ K8s+ T9o+ 87s+ and then QJ,QT,JT,J9
MP All those + A2o and T8s, J8s, K7s
CO All those + 54s+, T8o+, K5s
BUTTON All those + all suited kings, queens down to Q4s and Jacks down to J6s, all connectors down to 54o and some random stuff like T6s
SB All but like 72o and 83o+

These are when I'm playing "solid" when im tilting its button hands from every position.

My problem is that like I said I use very very good game selection.. well there is rarely bad games v early morning/late night at party. Anyway the normal lineup in my game is such a that there is no-one with VPIP under 30 and usually it ranges from 42 to 50 and one guy with like 32. So I guess I should adjust to that by playing tight.. however I see how bad they all play and just wanna punish them etc. Also their went to showdown is almost always like 41-50% and when I played higher I got used to people having went to showdown of 33-35 and that i could actually get them fold something.
So maybe I should play more against 2+2 players? It's unlikely that I would win, but I would lose slower and stay away from bustotown longer!

[/Rant over]

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yeah move up where they respect your raises.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

It sounds like more that you have psychological problems than anything else. You have solid fundamentals and choose not to use them.

I would talk to Rory.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

i dont understand why you want to play loose and (semi)fishy when it seems you were doing well as a 28/22? If you have lost 60k playing super aggro, then clearly it is not working. you opened utg w/ q4s and capped? the 3bet in hand 2 on the turn looks pretty horrible. man, go back to stox!

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I know. I used to be more solid about (28/22) back when Stoxtrader coached me and I played ton 30 60 and higher and won and played good. The [censored] happened in personal life, I got kocky and decided I dont need to listen the idiot anymore. So I began just playing very loose.

Here is about my preflop openings(the hand named is in the range) now how bad does it look:
UTG A6-AKo A2s+, KTo+ K8s+ T9o+ 87s+ and then QJ,QT,JT,J9
MP All those + A2o and T8s, J8s, K7s
CO All those + 54s+, T8o+, K5s
BUTTON All those + all suited kings, queens down to Q4s and Jacks down to J6s, all connectors down to 54o and some random stuff like T6s
SB All but like 72o and 83o+

These are when I'm playing "solid" when im tilting its button hands from every position.

My problem is that like I said I use very very good game selection.. well there is rarely bad games v early morning/late night at party. Anyway the normal lineup in my game is such a that there is no-one with VPIP under 30 and usually it ranges from 42 to 50 and one guy with like 32. So I guess I should adjust to that by playing tight.. however I see how bad they all play and just wanna punish them etc. Also their went to showdown is almost always like 41-50% and when I played higher I got used to people having went to showdown of 33-35 and that i could actually get them fold something.
So maybe I should play more against 2+2 players? It's unlikely that I would win, but I would lose slower and stay away from bustotown longer!

[/Rant over]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had seen him semibluff raise flush draw couple times.

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd have to be pretty confident he is on a draw. a big part of his range here has you smoked. it is inexcusable to put in 5 big bets on the big streets here.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had seen him semibluff raise flush draw couple times.

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd have to be pretty confident he is on a draw. a big part of his range here has you smoked. it is inexcusable to put in 5 big bets on the big streets here.

[/ QUOTE ]

The draw is basically the only hand you are ahead of besides a complete bluff, and his range is skewed to having an A or a K due to preflop action.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand why you want to play loose and (semi)fishy when it seems you were doing well as a 28/22? If you have lost 60k playing super aggro, then clearly it is not working. you opened utg w/ q4s and capped? the 3bet in hand 2 on the turn looks pretty horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]Because I was confident of my skills back then. I knew I could beat anyone if I play my own game. Nowdays I think that everyone is cheating me - I actually sent a email party when two 55/16 shodown 44/60 players kept beating me and told im 99% sure they cheat. I dont think I can beat anyone at any level nowdays. I actually played 3 6(thats nt 300 600) and thought they were all playing better then me. So in my mind I think whatever I need to play the lag style to hit the lucky run as it's my only chance to make money back. Or I think I need to change to that 60/10 as it's apparently workig because of the riged RNG.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

dam. if you are playing the way you played in the above hands, you should lose. if the 28/22 was making you money, it makes no sense to switch styles (especially if you are switching to a big losing style). go back to stox, baby. or at least back to the solid game he taught youl.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand why you want to play loose and (semi)fishy when it seems you were doing well as a 28/22? If you have lost 60k playing super aggro, then clearly it is not working. you opened utg w/ q4s and capped? the 3bet in hand 2 on the turn looks pretty horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]Because I was confident of my skills back then. I knew I could beat anyone if I play my own game. Nowdays I think that everyone is cheating me - I actually sent a email party when two 55/16 shodown 44/60 players kept beating me and told im 99% sure they cheat. I dont think I can beat anyone at any level nowdays. I actually played 3 6(thats nt 300 600) and thought they were all playing better then me. So in my mind I think whatever I need to play the lag style to hit the lucky run as it's my only chance to make money back. Or I think I need to change to that 60/10 as it's apparently workig because of the riged RNG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had seen him semibluff raise flush draw couple times.

[/ QUOTE ]

this may very well be true, but two thoughts pop into my mind:

a)is your call button broken or something?

b) just because you saw someone semibluff one time doesn't mean you give them ridiculous action forevermore... you are doing exactly what they want which is give them waaaaay too much action the 90% of the time they are not bluffing.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

I read the title and the first sentence or so. [censored] happens. Play more, play better, drop if necessary, that's all you can do.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

If you had read more than that you would probably change your response [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I would think this post is a joke, except that OP provided believable pictures of his bloody foot through a glass door.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Unless you learn or restore discipline you will be doomed. I recommend that you drop down to 3/6 or 5/10 and play about 23/15 for at least 50K hands and if and only if you can play well and discplined move up one limit at a time.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you had read more than that you would probably change your response [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I would think this post is a joke, except that OP provided believable pictures of his bloody foot through a glass door.

[/ QUOTE ]

He also provided stats:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4890/rrrrtp7.jpg

This is him playing well btw. 4.5 APH

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Hi,

I haven't read any of the other responses in this thread, but from what I can tell, even 3 handed at 20/40, it looks like you are spewing an awful amount here. In hand 1, I think the preflop 3bet is pretty bad OOP against a solid player, but I think you played the rest of the hand fine.

Hand 2 is just sick. Why on earth would you go 4 bets on that turn with a pair of tens with an A and K on the board...even if you somehow won this one, you won't win a lot of those.


Hand 3, I think the open raise there is bad...really bad. The cap I am ok with if you have been opening light recently, but still not so much since the guy who 3 bet you is tight, so luikely he isnt messing around OOP here. I guess the flop raise is ok if you are planning on going for a free turn card, but I still don't like it very much.


Overall, I think you understand that you need ot be aggressive to win in these games (which is good), but you are picking very bad times to do it, and trying to knock people off hands that are very hard to knock people off of in limit hold em. Good luck getting that money back.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

You are doing some serious damage to your bankroll. Stop playing and get your head screwed on straight. If you feel tempted to play again and spew, look down at your foot for actual, physical proof of tilt.

God Bless,
lil'

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

POW POW POW

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Revisit pre-flop fundamentals.

Limit is about winning showdowns and the best way to do that is starting with better cards than your opponents.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

I'd love to have you in my games, move up!



The aforementioned sarcasm is meant to say "You are playing terribly, stop before you go busto."

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yea i'm going to start playing real good solid poker now. Just read the Theory Of Poker first time in my life.. sick book.
Maybe I will read some other books too.
I bought some new drugs yesterday aswell.. the seller told the y will activite some unused parts of my brain. Well that sounds good! And they seem to have a nice side affect of making me very tired and happy.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yea i'm going to start playing real good solid poker now. Just read the Theory Of Poker first time in my life.. sick book.
Maybe I will read some other books too.
I bought some new drugs yesterday aswell.. the seller told the y will activite some unused parts of my brain. Well that sounds good! And they seem to have a nice side affect of making me very tired and happy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Considering that, I now would say that it finally pins it down to either a fairly compentent, but not very funny, joker (considering the footage and all), or a very very seriously disturbed person that needs help and should go find it somewhere else...

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
... So in my mind I think whatever I need to play the lag style to hit the lucky run as it's my only chance to make money back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Therin lies your problem. This is the gambler's fallacy. As soon as anyone says "I need to make my money back" they may as well take several hundred/thousand/million dollars (whatever is lost) and just send it to me and quit. I promise I will return half and you'll have 100 times more than if you continued to play whatever game you are playing.

Your money is GONE. It's not your money any more. You have to earn whatever you're going to get. And sadly it won't be in one hand or one session. It will take alot of playing well, alot of luck and more solid playing.

Good luck.
Magi

P.S. Take some time off -- you should stay away from the game as long as it takes to get rid of that feeling that you need to make money back.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Hand 1. I fold preflop
Hand 2. I fold to the turn C/R
Hand 3. I fold preflop

Do you play all your hands like this? If so, I think you are a losing player, who got lucky in his first 100K hands. It happens.

Sorry to be harsh.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Harsh is good, that's why I posted this. Being insulted pushes me playing better. I have now played couple days with my new open ranges and I'm quite happy with them:
UTG 66,77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA AT,AJ,AQ,AK A7s,A8s,A9s,ATsAJs,AQ,AKs, KJ,KQ KTs,KJs,KQs QTs,QJs, QJ, JTs, T9s

MP 55,66,77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA A8,A9AT,AJ,AQ,AK A5s,A6s,A7s,A8s,A9s,ATsAJs,AQ,AKs, KT,KJ,KQ K9s,KTs,KJs,KQs QTs,QJs, Q9s,QJ, JTs,J9s T9s

CUTOFF 44,55,66,77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA A6,A7,A8,A9AT,AJ,AQ,AK A2s A3s,A4s A5s,A6s,A7s,A8s,A9s,ATsAJs,AQ,AKs, KT,KJ,KQ K9s,KTs,KJs,KQs QTs,QJs, Q9s,QJ,QT, JT JTs,J9s T9s, 98s, 87s

BUTTON 22,33,44,55,66,77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA A3,A4,A5,A6,A7,A8,A9AT,AJ,AQ,AK A2s A3s,A4s A5s,A6s,A7s,A8s,A9s,ATsAJs,AQ,AKs, K9,KT,KJ,KQ, K6s,K7s,K8s,K9s,KTs,KJs,KQs Q8s,Q9s,QTs,QJs Q9,QJ,QT, J9,JT J8s,J9s,JTs T9 T9s T8s, 97s,98s, 87s, 65s

I should still figure out some 3 betting ranges and how to showdown less with K and A highs, I'm getting better at folding Q-highs. It's just hard to fold when about everyone else goes so much to showdown.

I just played this hand: I raise K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] from cutoff unknown button calls. Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I bet and the button calls. Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I bet, he raises and I call. River 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I check-call. He had AA.
Hands like this come up all the time where i'm unsure if I should drop it on turn or river.
So be warned party 20 40 players! Starting from tommorrow there is one more good player.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Is it me or are these open ranges a little wide? T9s UTG? 65s for a button steal?

You're getting better at folding Q highs?

OP, seriously, read some books and study these forums for two weeks before you play another hand. TOP is great and all, but you need to read something a little more hands on. What books other than TOP have you read?

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

I havent read any books about poker, they are boring and teach too tight style. I have the ace on river which should be good and then I have the "holdem poker" by sklansky.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yeah - I'd narrow some of those down a bit.

They aren't THAT bad, but then in one of your example hands you raise Q4s UTG?!?

In that hand you just showed, what are you hoping to beat??! What on earth is he going to call 2 bets cold with that you can beat!?! Did the fact he called 2 cold even cross your mind?

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yeah well I was tilting in that hand, it happens and there is nothing I can do about it except try to get rid of it in future. That's why i'm trying to strict starting hand standards.

I dunno I rarely try to read hands. I just thought because he called 2 cold he is likely a moron and has nothing.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just played this hand: I raise K Q from cutoff unknown button calls. Flop is J 4 7 I bet and the button calls. Turn is 8 I bet, he raises and I call. River 3 and I check-call. He had AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So be warned party 20 40 players! Starting from tommorrow there is one more good player.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm shaking in my boots.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

FU! 50k next month from 20 40, prop bets anyone??

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno I rarely try to read hands. I just thought because he called 2 cold he is likely a moron and has nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you are playing 20/40?!? I'm literally speechless!!!

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

Yes 20 40 now. I used to play 100 200 and 300 600, but then the bad run hit
=( gotta rebuild a bit and then i go back there.

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes 20 40 now. I used to play 100 200 and 300 600, but then the bad run hit
=( gotta rebuild a bit and then i go back there.

[/ QUOTE ]

My troll-post detector is starting to hum...

Re: Help me win my 60k back from 20 40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I havent read any books about poker, they are boring and teach too tight style. I have the ace on river which should be good and then I have the "holdem poker" by sklansky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you are either a well-disguised troll which is unlikely from the posts of your foot or you are a complusive, degenerate gambler with a serious problem. Most of the people here have read numerous books, spend a lot of time posting strategy hands and take the game very serious. They aren't so flippant in their attitude of "most books teach too tight a style" and are wise enough to realize that there is wisdom to be gained from viewing and considering many perspectives. You can't expect to just read one book, post once or twice in MSSH and go rape 10/20+.

OP, seriously, go to GA.