Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players

Villain is TAG (29/10/2.5 over 70 hands).

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO 3-bets</font>, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.5SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero ???

Any other way to play this?

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

29/10/2.5 isn't TAG. I'd call this down with those stats.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
29/10/2.5 isn't TAG. I'd call this down with those stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of stats indicates a TAG?

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

someone who's 29/10/2.5 is more of a LAG. A TAG is something like 18/10/3.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

Top pair pretty good kicker: I would have led out the betting and see where you stand,

the way you played it- you were doing all the guessing, not the villain.

If he 3-bet your flop bet, you could think about folding?

Ian

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

I agree that he isn't a TAG, but he is AG. Leading out the flop against a LAG is useless. You will bet raised a ton by whatever and it tells you nothing.

That river card sux, because a few more combos just passed you. The pot is big enough to call, but I wouldn't like it.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

i c/r the flop.

i'd guess that this opponent actually is a tag...he's just played a couple more blind hands in these 70 that is upping his vpip without a corresponding increase in pfr. also note that there are tags that aren't 2p2ers-- these guys are on like rgp and p5s and are more passive than 2p2ers are.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

I would C/R the flop. Like others are saying, if he's AG it would be useless to open. He might well have something like K-9 if he's LAG. If he reraises your check-raise then calling down was probably right. The pot is big enough, I think, that you shouldn't fold if even if you're pretty sure you're beat.

Then again, I wouldn't be suprised to see K-T, K3s or even a big pocket pair.

I wonder if you had opened with a bet on the flop if he would still have bet out.

I think you probably played it well.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

The flop is probably WA/WB (although I think we are A a little more than B) so I like the call. If you donk or raise ahead he is going to fold and you miss bets of him continuing to fire, if you are behind it will probably just cost you more. Same on the turn.

Honestly in the heat of the moment I call this river, but I think a fold may be better. That seems weak with TPGK, but what are we really ahead of that he is 3betting pf - QQ, AJ, AT, 99? I don't think we are ahead 1 in 8 times unless you have a read on a wide range he will 3 bet. That river card isn't good.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

a vpip of 29 isn't tight so I won't call villain a TAG. On the flop I'd call planning to call it down all the way. But the turn and river are both bad cards, so you only beat QQ, and I doubt if calling the river hoping to see QQ or some other strange unexpected hand is +EV

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i c/r the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please explain why one would want to C/R?

If you are behind AA, KK, or AK you'll just get re-raised.

If you are winning, you may make him fold.

Is the idea that you can fold to a re-raise but you can't fold to a bet and raise?

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

Why are we not raising even once with TP Good kicker?

Villian could 3-bet PF with any mid PP, AJ, AT,JJ,AQ,KQ.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

Bet/fold the river. Seems like a WA/WB situation to me.

*Edit: Maybe I take that back. I suck and to make matters worse have had a few beers. I think calling down is fine. That river doesn't make me happy. I'll leave my original post for others to think about [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Would it be a better line if the river were a rag?

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i c/r the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

My gut instinct was to check/raise the flop, but given that 3-bet from our opponent, I'm having a hard time believing that would be profitable.

I actually think we can consider the bet/fold line on the river, since it seems like this is a WA/WB situation. The board being that scary though, hmmm, it's close and tough (to answer the earlier question, I think the bet/fold line would be better if a blank fell). Check/call for a read is where my vote goes. I want to know if this guy 3-bets premium hands.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

Why you guys aren't crushing the MIrco Limits -Ed Miller

I think this is where this link plays. I would donk out the first bet and call down when raised. You have top pair and a great kicker. With his stats he looks to me to be LAG. He could have a wide range of raising hands which you have beat.

Re: Top Pair - Good Kicker - Is calling down a mistake?
 

No way am I folding here.