Live Tells
 

Hello,

I am sure this has been discussed a thousand times and I am sorry in advance. I play $2 / $4 in the casinos and mainly at 9 seater tables. The tables are very lose so I tend to play tight agresive.

I'm making a few hundred a night, but I feel I could be making more if I worked on catching people with weak middle pairs or bluffing.

I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

Much appreciated.

Be Realistic, be a Drinker - Oliver Cross (http://eDrinker.com)

Re: Live Tells
 

Because it's impossible for "kids" to know anything about tells...*eye roll*

Re: Live Tells
 

I want experience, I don't want Ernie and Bert playing poker in the bath.

Don't post if you have nothing of any use.

Be Realistic, be a Drinker - Oliver Cross (http://eDrinker.com)

Re: Live Tells
 

Here's something to consider. At those small stakes levels you're gonna have a lot of players thrashing and splashing. It's pretty tough to get a read on someone that doesn't know the value of their own hand. In the same way that it is pretty hard to bluff an idiot.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's something to consider. At those small stakes levels you're gonna have a lot of players thrashing and splashing. It's pretty tough to get a read on someone that doesn't know the value of their own hand. In the same way that it is pretty hard to bluff an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand and your correct is very relevent to the game. When I started I made a lot of money but then they realised I was charging them $10 - $20 to see a flop and if they don't hit they don't play.

However more recently they have bet in to me and shown their bluff to prove to the other players they have beaten me. I want to read that player's bet but I want an archive of tells.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want experience, I don't want Ernie and Bert playing poker in the bath.


[/ QUOTE ]

While Ernie's a bit of a maniac, Bert is a very good tight-aggressive player who's very good at picking up tells. How do you think Oscar lost his bankroll?

[ QUOTE ]

Don't post if you have nothing of any use.


[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops.

Re: Live Tells
 

If you're referring to 2/4 limit, then tells aren't going to really improve your winnings. I used to put in between 30 and 40 hours a week playing 3/6 at a casino in Washington with pretty good success (I don't have any numbers to prove this, however, due to moving cross country multiple times, as well as never keeping very detailed records to begin with), and physical tells didn't really factor in all that much. It was more like online play, where you pay attention to betting habits. Betting into a preflop raiser meant top pair. Betting into the pf raiser again on the turn probably meant at least two pair or better. Quick calls indicated draws; hesitant calls were usually mid-pair or worse. This isn't 100% true all the time, but more often than not it held true.

Now if you're referring to 2/4 no limit, I wish I could help you, but I haven't played in games like that often enough to really comment or offer advice.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd give you a serious response, but, with only three posts to your credit, you have no reputation capital.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd give you a serious response, but, with only three posts to your credit, you have no reputation capital.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you want to be any more offensive in one of your first posts on this forum? Many of the 'kids' who post on here earn stupid amounts of money playing poker, play much higher stakes than you, and are absolutely fantastic players with great understanding of the game. They may be only teenagers, or in their early 20s, but they can still play. I am, in comparison, an old fogey. And I don't win a fortune playing poker. But I still found your 'requirements' for those who wanted to respond to be, well, rude I guess.

In answer to your question (notice that nobody has bothered to answer you yet - wonder why?) - there are various generic tells to look out for when people are bluffing or betting marginal hands. These include the obvious one of throwing chips into the pot 'with gusto' - often a sign of a relatively weak hand subconciously feigning strength. There are many others obviously. The classic book on tells is Mike Caro's Book of Tells. It is an essential read if you've not done any work on tells before, and is worth buying for the amusing 70s photos alone.

By the way:
[ QUOTE ]
I play $2 / $4... I'm making a few hundred a night

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're playing 2-4 Limit then you're NOT making a few hundred a night. You might have done so for the last few weeks or even last few months, but that is just short term variance. The best players in the world would struggle to make 50BBs on average in an 10 hour session of low limit poker. If you're talking about 2-4 NL then that is different and your claim is far more plausible.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing seriously for a couple years.. I've probably logged around 1500 hours live playing $100 and $200 max NL at the casino.. Countless more online. I've read every post/article/book I could get my hands on related to tells.

But I'm only 20, so I won't waste your time with my kiddie list of tells.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing seriously for a couple years.. I've probably logged around 1500 hours live playing $100 and $200 max NL at the casino.. Countless more online. I've read every post/article/book I could get my hands on related to tells.

But I'm only 20, so I won't waste your time with my kiddie list of tells.

[/ QUOTE ]

noice [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Turning Stone?

Re: Live Tells
 

just wanted to post something useless

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]

noice [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Turning Stone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I try to get out there at least every other weekend.. Usually end up staying no less than 12 hours lol.. I kinda miss the old poker room though (as nice as the new one is), first place I played live other than a home game.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want experience, I don't want Ernie and Bert playing poker in the bath.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I bet you're a real expert. Tell people about how they won't make so many flushes when they get older.

You don't make a few hundred a night playing $2/4, and the fact that you think you do means you probably have a lot to learn from some of the "kids" around here.

Tells aren't going to help you nearly as much as you think they are. Getting better at poker would be the most helpful.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,

>I am sure this has been discussed a thousand times and I am sorry in advance. I play $2 / $4 in the casinos and mainly at 9 seater tables. The tables are very lose so I tend to play tight agresive.

>I'm making a few hundred a night

---

I don't believe you.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]

I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing for 600 years and I usually play for a million dollars a bet, so you can believe me when I tell you you should always fold against these people.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you're referring to 2/4 limit, then tells aren't going to really improve your winnings. I used to put in between 30 and 40 hours a week playing 3/6 at a casino in Washington with pretty good success (I don't have any numbers to prove this, however, due to moving cross country multiple times, as well as never keeping very detailed records to begin with), and physical tells didn't really factor in all that much. It was more like online play, where you pay attention to betting habits. Betting into a preflop raiser meant top pair. Betting into the pf raiser again on the turn probably meant at least two pair or better. Quick calls indicated draws; hesitant calls were usually mid-pair or worse. This isn't 100% true all the time, but more often than not it held true.

Now if you're referring to 2/4 no limit, I wish I could help you, but I haven't played in games like that often enough to really comment or offer advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm playing NL but thanks for your input. I would much prefer to play $5 / $10 limit but no one seems to play limit. I've played a $5 / $10 NL game last week but I risked my whole bank roll to play. I think $2 / $4 is a good choice at the moment, but saying that I only managed to make minimum wage after 5 hours last night ($50).

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd give you a serious response, but, with only three posts to your credit, you have no reputation capital.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he certainly hasn't built any in this thread.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any kids posting any responses, just people with some good background game. So when you reply please leave infomation of the stakes you play and how long you have been playing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you want to be any more offensive in one of your first posts on this forum? Many of the 'kids' who post on here earn stupid amounts of money playing poker, play much higher stakes than you, and are absolutely fantastic players with great understanding of the game. They may be only teenagers, or in their early 20s, but they can still play. I am, in comparison, an old fogey. And I don't win a fortune playing poker. But I still found your 'requirements' for those who wanted to respond to be, well, rude I guess.

In answer to your question (notice that nobody has bothered to answer you yet - wonder why?) - there are various generic tells to look out for when people are bluffing or betting marginal hands. These include the obvious one of throwing chips into the pot 'with gusto' - often a sign of a relatively weak hand subconciously feigning strength. There are many others obviously. The classic book on tells is Mike Caro's Book of Tells. It is an essential read if you've not done any work on tells before, and is worth buying for the amusing 70s photos alone.

By the way:
[ QUOTE ]
I play $2 / $4... I'm making a few hundred a night

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're playing 2-4 Limit then you're NOT making a few hundred a night. You might have done so for the last few weeks or even last few months, but that is just short term variance. The best players in the world would struggle to make 50BBs on average in an 10 hour session of low limit poker. If you're talking about 2-4 NL then that is different and your claim is far more plausible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have Mike Carro's book on order and look forward to reading it. I should have said I am playing $2 / $4 NL.

Just as side not I am currently reading "The Proffesor, The Banker and the Suicide King". A really interesting story about a texas banker who lost millions at high stake limit poker. I expect most of you have already read it.

Be Realistic, be a Drinker - Oliver Cross (http://eDrinker.com)

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want experience, I don't want Ernie and Bert playing poker in the bath.


[/ QUOTE ]

While Ernie's a bit of a maniac, Bert is a very good tight-aggressive player who's very good at picking up tells. How do you think Oscar lost his bankroll?


[/ QUOTE ]

I've found Bert to be more tight-weak with a tendancy to go on crazy monkey tilt if Ernie eats cookies in his bed. Sort of like Hellmuth.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want experience, I don't want Ernie and Bert playing poker in the bath.


[/ QUOTE ]

While Ernie's a bit of a maniac, Bert is a very good tight-aggressive player who's very good at picking up tells. How do you think Oscar lost his bankroll?

[ QUOTE ]

Don't post if you have nothing of any use.


[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Nice Hand!

Re: Live Tells
 

it would seem that while you were trying to avoid the pimply faced minions you did nothing but incite the pre pubescent masses the only decent advice coming from meanda

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
it would seem that while you were trying to avoid the pimply faced minions you did nothing but incite the pre pubescent masses the only decent advice coming from meanda

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao, tell me about it.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play $2 / $4... I'm making a few hundred a night

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice, good to hear you're crushing the 2/4 game, whats your bankroll? 8K? 10K? 15K?

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I've played a $5 / $10 NL game last week but I risked my whole bank roll to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute, Why would you sit with your entire 10Kish sized roll at a 5/10 game? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh ya I forgot, you're full of [censored]

Please respond with a post where you tell me you need the couple a hundered a night you make to pay bills, and only keep about 1 or 2 buy ins as a bankroll. That would make my afternoon.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play $2 / $4... I'm making a few hundred a night

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice, good to hear you're crushing the 2/4 game, whats your bankroll? 8K? 10K? 15K?

[ QUOTE ]

I've played a $5 / $10 NL game last week but I risked my whole bank roll to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute, Why would you sit with your entire 10Kish sized roll at a 5/10 game? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh ya I forgot, you're full of [censored]

Please respond with a post where you tell me you need the couple a hundered a night you make to pay bills, and only keep about 1 or 2 buy ins as a bankroll. That would make my afternoon.

[/ QUOTE ]

No my bank roll is is about $2k, I play 5 hours a night live for fun. I'm well aware of bank roll management thanks.

However once again someone didn't have any usefull to say. Ok so what you can do if it makes you feel more secure, just pretend everything I has said is a lie, but you still couldn't answer my question. I'm surprised you can even spell poker.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play $2 / $4... I'm making a few hundred a night

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice, good to hear you're crushing the 2/4 game, whats your bankroll? 8K? 10K? 15K?

[ QUOTE ]

I've played a $5 / $10 NL game last week but I risked my whole bank roll to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute, Why would you sit with your entire 10Kish sized roll at a 5/10 game? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh ya I forgot, you're full of [censored]

Please respond with a post where you tell me you need the couple a hundered a night you make to pay bills, and only keep about 1 or 2 buy ins as a bankroll. That would make my afternoon.

[/ QUOTE ]

No my bank roll is is about $2k, I play 5 hours a night live for fun. I'm well aware of bank roll management thanks.

However once again someone didn't have any usefull to say. Ok so what you can do if it makes you feel more secure, just pretend everything I has said is a lie, but you still couldn't answer my question. I'm surprised you can even spell poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks that was awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Live Tells
 

How is your bankroll 2k when your making a "couple hundred" a night. Have you only played 4 or 5 nights?

Re: Live Tells
 

14 days or so, but I got lucky in the $5/$10 NL which I shouldn't have been in.

Can anyone answer my question? If you are worried about my experience of if I am lieing just ignore what what I've wrote and please provide me with your experience for $2/$4 NL live game tells.

I've already read a lot but I am interested in others personal experience.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is your bankroll 2k when your making a "couple hundred" a night. Have you only played 4 or 5 nights?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you find it hard to believe a guy who pulls in about 50K a year keeps a bankroll of 2K?

Re: Live Tells
 

In the games you are speaking of, the tells I would look for are the manner in which chips are bet, as well as betting patterns. Pay a TON of attention to the aggressive players as they are the ones you'll be dealing with most of the time. Oh, and when a weak/tight/passive player starts shaking like a leaf, FOLD.


BTW, I'm 12 and have been playing for 4 weeks. I multi 12 tables of 1/2 limit online and make about $750/night. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the games you are speaking of, the tells I would look for are the manner in which chips are bet, as well as betting patterns. Pay a TON of attention to the aggressive players as they are the ones you'll be dealing with most of the time. Oh, and when a weak/tight/passive player starts shaking like a leaf, FOLD.


BTW, I'm 12 and have been playing for 4 weeks. I multi 12 tables of 1/2 limit online and make about $750/night. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you pba08, now I am getting some where.

Re: Live Tells
 

Search is probally your best friend with this one.

Re: Live Tells
 

[ QUOTE ]
Search is probally your best friend with this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually did before I registered, however I couldn't find an actual achive of tells other than posts on indivdual sessions.

Re: Live Tells
 

You should loosen your starting requirements a bit. I would go into detail and explain why, but I am young, and I really don't like you.

Re: Live Tells
 

Yep we haven't really covered anything today have we, we will try again tomorrow. However I'm a little worried it's the weekend and I expect I will get more useless comments.

Re: Live Tells
 

Goose - you sure do know how to make an impression on folks. Not necessarily a good one either.
But as a long time reader and a short time poster I give you the benefit of the doubt in the way you phrased things and really only hoped for serious replies and didn't mean to antagonize 1/3 of the posters here.

Okay - Background +$50K per year net/live combined.
All records are very well documented as to game location session length and after play rating of how I played (you can be a donkey and still win in any session). Home games the last 20 years with a couple trips to LV a year until Casino's came to the Midwest 10 years ago. Bread and butter game has been LIMIT poker UNTIL the last 2 years. Play online primarily 10/20 short handed and up to 40/80 live with the majority being 20/40 and 30/60.

Last year I have decided it was just to juicy to continue to ignore No limit tourneys with the influx of newbies.
I have been very successful in the transition and won my WSOP ME entry on my first attempt in April

In short I take a serious students approach to any game I gamble in and have done it successfully for the last +20 yrs.

My live play now is $2/5 No Limit but we have a $500 MAX buy in locally to any table which impacts the play but keeps the fish alive for a lot longer. I play a TAG style and any semi observant player knows it and my Limit history was the same. This allows me MANY positional stealing opportunities which I take advantage of. I average $108 per hour for my last 10 live sessions this year (LIMITED SAMPLE SIZE).

Tells generalized:

1) If they splash chips they are bluffing. Beware the soft bet not the one done with flourish.
2) If you can't see them breath (they are stones and normally are animated) they are bluffing - A guy holding his breathe is exactly what he seems - scared.
3) They Look uninterested - WATCH OUT
4) If immediately after looking at their hole cards if you can see them checking their chips stacks (glancing down or better yet staring) WATCH OUT
5) Quick calls are NORMALLY draw hands. Give them the wrong pot odds to run you down.
6) Bets from "Nervous" hands should scare you.
7) Short stacks are at least 2 to 3 times more likely to be bluffing. -- NOTE my casino has a buy in limit and although you can add back to the $500 level at anytime few players do -- This dramatically increases the frequency of short stack bluffs in my local casino and it may NOT be the same for you.

All this being said don't get over enthused with "catching bluffs" as being a huge hourly money winner. I have saved more by laying down a hand based upon my read of a player (tells) than I make by catching them.

If you are going to error the smaller of the errors is folding a winner than calling with a loser.

Hope this helps. But in closing a lot of these "kids" are tough SOB's at no limit because they have not learned fear (remember when you were young and though you were bullet proof? ) and play with a disregard that can be one Hades of a style to read and defend against. The truly dynamite ones not only have no fear BUT have LEARNED the gaming theory to add to their natural style.

While I love to play against brash bullet proof players I HATE to play against an INTELLIGENT young and brash no limit player who is a student of the game. Those pups are tough and I am good enough to know to stay out of their way without good reason.

Re: Live Tells
 

Methinks this is a joke post...

Re: Live Tells
 

1/2 50cent/1 NL cash games and small smakes sng's for live play, between live and online play i have logged over 100k hands since the first of this year, many more in the past but have spent the last few months actively improving my play, id personally spend the time i wasn't involved in hands deciding if these very loose players were just bad, or if they were just loose players with post flop ability, if their bad enough its just A/b/c poker, if you can identify particular large mistakes or leaks in some of their play u can plan means of stacking them, aside from standard Caro tells its a lot of individual experience, betting patterns seem to be my tool rather than the physical tells but some players are bad enough to give them off to the point they are a book

Re: Live Tells
 

I just wanted to say thanks to knife420, RealMcCoy, meandi out of all the posts you got straight to the point.

Well done to all the kids who took 5 minutes out of their day and posted crap.

I picked up Mike Caro's book of tells and I am finding it very usefull.