Overcall this river?
 

So, this table was sweet. Lots of cold calling, no matter how many bets, people calling down with bottom pair, a raise meant betting hard 'til the river, even with air. Really great table. Specific reads on the players in this hand: UTG seemed solid, just a tad loose pf, but played well post. MP2 was overaggressive pre and postflop, would bet 2nd pr/underpocket like the nuts. CO was your basic lpp, with a heavy emphasis on the loose part. My main question is about the river, but as always, I would appreciate comments on the rest of the hand.

-Jaran

Fulltilt Poker 9 handed
Hero is in MP1 with (A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP2 3bets, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls

Flop (13sb)
8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, UTG calls, Hero calls

Turn (8 bb)
3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, UTG calls, Hero calls

River (12 bb)
A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, UTG calls, Hero...

Re: Overcall this river?
 

I think I would have to lay this one down on the river.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

I was on a similar table last night, and will be posting some hands from it. It is interesting how your opponents tendencies can drastically alter your "correct strategy" a lot of the time. The standard play here is probably to fold. However, in this case, you have a player who could be betting nearly ANYTHING here, and another player calling with anything. UTG is the only one you should have to worry about, but he most likely sees the same thing you do in MP2 and CO and is calling knowing a lot of hands are good here. Closing the action against these players - this is a call for me. I made a lot of money last night calling in similar situations.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

why are you guys folding? we peeled the turn with our Q outs but certainly our A can be good here 1 in 15 times. am i way off?

Re: Overcall this river?
 

given your read i would raise

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
why are you guys folding? we peeled the turn with our Q outs but certainly our A can be good here 1 in 15 times. am i way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, very easy call IMO.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are you guys folding? we peeled the turn with our Q outs but certainly our A can be good here 1 in 15 times. am i way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, very easy call IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps this a reason why my WSD% is low! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
given your read i would call

[/ QUOTE ]

With this board and so many opponents I would hate to be re-raised so its just a call for me.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

I'll take a stab at this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hmm, torn between calling and raising. While typing this out, I've waffled between the two a gazillion times.

I favor raising--seems like if UTG made anything significant (like a straight or 2 pr), he would have c/rd here, knowing MP2 would bet and CO would call, and you haven't shown any strength post-flop, maybe you have something like Ax or an underpair.

The other two I consider a raise for value, as it sounds like MP2 will happily cap with anything, and CO will call it. I think I'll win more than a third of the time against those two.

I'm not so sure I would call the turn there though. I guess I'm not really comfortable with the A outs at this point, and one of the Qs might be tainted.

Interesting hand. What did you do? How'd it come out?

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll take a stab at this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hmm, torn between calling and raising. While typing this out, I've waffled between the two a gazillion times.

I favor raising--seems like if UTG made anything significant (like a straight or 2 pr), he would have c/rd here, knowing MP2 would bet and CO would call, and you haven't shown any strength post-flop, maybe you have something like Ax or an underpair.

The other two I consider a raise for value, as it sounds like MP2 will happily cap with anything, and CO will call it. I think I'll win more than a third of the time against those two.

I'm not so sure I would call the turn there though. I guess I'm not really comfortable with the A outs at this point, and one of the Qs might be tainted.

Interesting hand. What did you do? How'd it come out?

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn, I gave myself 3.5 Q outs and 1+ A out, so wth the pot laying me 11:1, I called.

When the A fell on the river and it was a bet and two calls to me, I took almost the entire time trying to decide what to do. I froze up. I couldn't see any possible way that a pr of A's would win. I folded.

MP2 99, CO T4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ([img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]), UTG KJo.

I suck at poker [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

-Jaran

Re: Overcall this river?
 

:g:

Given your read + size of the pot + closing the action, I'd probably go ahead and call.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

I agree with grandma. Apparently your hand was good enough to chase to the river with little more than a gutshot and an overcard. Isn't it worth 1 more call when you hit your ace?

I think LAAs are most effective when their style causes their opponents to loosen up and gamble with them. I think refusing to follow in their path by remaining semi-tight and continue to play your game is your most effective weapon against them. Play solid holdings and let them bet to you. CR the heck out of them when you hold the goods.
Never bluff them. That's what I do anyway.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, I gave myself 3.5 Q outs and 1+ A out, so wth the pot laying me 11:1, I called.

When the A fell on the river and it was a bet and two calls to me, I took almost the entire time trying to decide what to do. I froze up. I couldn't see any possible way that a pr of A's would win. I folded.

I think if you count the A as an out on the turn you have to at call when it hits on the river (except the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]). If you don't count the A as an out you are a little thin to call the turn and might want to fold there.

MP2 99, CO T4 (), UTG KJo.

I suck at poker
Ah this is not true [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Overcall this river?
 

Hi Jaran.

No folding allowed.

All anyone has done (with the exception of aggro guy) is call. How is that scary to TP2K here?

One very LPP guy. Villain apparently pushes any piece. Basic hand reading suggests that "solid" guy doesn't beat us (he raises 2-pair or better somewhere along the way if your description is even close to accurate).

You can make a pretty good case for raising despite the complications of MP2 3-bombing us, but I don't hate a call. Folding is ridiculous closing the action.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
On the turn, I gave myself 3.5 Q outs and 1+ A out, so wth the pot laying me 11:1, I called.

When the A fell on the river and it was a bet and two calls to me, I took almost the entire time trying to decide what to do. I froze up. I couldn't see any possible way that a pr of A's would win. I folded.

I think if you count the A as an out on the turn you have to at call when it hits on the river (except the A ). If you don't count the A as an out you are a little thin to call the turn and might want to fold there.

MP2 99, CO T4 (), UTG KJo.

I suck at poker
Ah this is not true

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said. You most emphatically do not suck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Overcall this river?
 

Jaran,
It's a no-brainer call if you're HU, right? I don't understand why the overcallers would discourage you to call in this spot when it looks like they're just padding the pot. It's possible one of them has a stupid A3/K8 2pair or whatever, but you have both of them beaten more than half the time.

Re: Overcall this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jaran,
It's a no-brainer call if you're HU, right? I don't understand why the overcallers would discourage you to call in this spot when it looks like they're just padding the pot. It's possible one of them has a stupid A3/K8 2pair or whatever, but you have both of them beaten more than half the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I pretty much blew it on the river. I spent the next few minutes raging about the apt. about missing that call. The strange thing was I had "Never fold in a big pot for one bet" going through my head and I still folded. Meh.

-Jaran