Question for happily married people
 

Going through a break up right now that had to do with issues of communication and me being emotionally guarded. Pretty much issues Ive had forever (Im 25 now) from childhood issues and past relationship issues. I decided to make a huge 180 too late in the game and we ended up splitting up a month after, Im still owrking on my issues with success and seeking help and rolemodels elsewhere (things Ive never done or had) instead of inwardly working on all my issues and not communicating them or seeking outward influences. So besides the break up bringing me down, how I am dealing with things is pretty new. Feels weird to let down walls and work on being open.

anyway, my question is basically this. What kind of advice would you give to someone about making relationships/marraiges work with success. It can be simple/obvious or just things you have learned as you have lived on through your relationships and/or marriage.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

1. You have to be prepared to compromise
2. You have to be prepared to trust
3. You have to shake off any selfishness, and be prepared to put the needs/hopes of the other ahead of yours (sometimes, not all the time). Removing selfishness is extremely important if you are intending to have children, cos then, what's good for your children becomes paramount to pretty much anything.
4. You do have to find a place/space for your own time - even if it's 15 minutes in the bathroom each day reading the paper.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
simple/obvious

[/ QUOTE ]
Deal with your own issues first. Bringing baggage into a relationship rarely helps. Since you're only 25, you have plenty of time for this. Find a professional to talk to about these issues.
25 is a weird age. Some people have it all figured out by then. Others are still working on finding themselves. You may be in that 2nd group. Spend some time on you before you bring someone else into the picture.

And don't worry so much, we all go through this crap. Well, except diebitter, he was born cool....

Re: Question for happily married people
 

My best advice is that no matter how long you've been together/married, you are still dating. Treat her the same way you did when you were trying to sweep her off her feet. Don't get complacent. Occassionaly show up with flowers for no reason. Schedule a regular "date night" and do something together -- dinner, a movie, whatever.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

I've been married 10 years, and when I figure it out, I'll let you know.

I just love my wife, and am extremely committed to our marriage and family. And there isn't much she could say, or do that could change that. As in, we never have an argument that makes me question my commitment.

We don't really communicate very well, and have very few interests in common. We hold the same core beliefs about raising kids and family, though. We both agree there is very little hers and mine, and a whole lot of 'ours' when it comes to finances, etc though (even though I'm the only one working). And you have to be willing to put in your share of the housework so that she doesn't feel she's tackling it alone.

The only thing that could threaten it was if Alyssa Milano knocked on my door and said 'let's go'.

KO

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that could threaten it was if Alyssa Milano knocked on my door and said 'let's go'.

[/ QUOTE ]
My wife loves Alyssa, so she'd probably want to come along. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. You have to be prepared to compromise
2. You have to be prepared to trust
3. You have to shake off any selfishness, and be prepared to put the needs/hopes of the other ahead of yours (sometimes, not all the time). Removing selfishness is extremely important if you are intending to have children, cos then, what's good for your children becomes paramount to pretty much anything.
4. You do have to find a place/space for your own time - even if it's 15 minutes in the bathroom each day reading the paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were that easy how come most marriages end in complete disaster? Respectfully, that advise sounds good on paper but almost never really works in practice.

Also, in regards to the original poster, I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships. At the core of a person's desire for a relationship is their instinctual needs - which is primarily finding a mate with strong genes. The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

I think KingOtter's comment reflect this well. He and his wife have little in common and they do not communicate well. Yet, they stay together and my guess is that it is because of the primary need to reproduce effectively. I am guessing his last comment about Milano was a bit of a joke but I think it is illustrative - for most men they would risk a happy marriage to fulfill their primary instinctual need to have sex with the perfect woman.

I am very happily married - fantastically so. However, I am about 100% sure I would risk it all to have sex with Sunny Leone. We are just built like that.

btw - today is Mrs. Utah's and my 10th wedding anniversary and we have been together for 13 years.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

1. Make sure your wife holds out on you for long periods of time. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] You'll love her even more!

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. You have to be prepared to compromise
2. You have to be prepared to trust
3. You have to shake off any selfishness, and be prepared to put the needs/hopes of the other ahead of yours (sometimes, not all the time). Removing selfishness is extremely important if you are intending to have children, cos then, what's good for your children becomes paramount to pretty much anything.
4. You do have to find a place/space for your own time - even if it's 15 minutes in the bathroom each day reading the paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were that easy how come most marriages end in complete disaster? Respectfully, that advise sounds good on paper but almost never really works in practice.

Also, in regards to the original poster, I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships. At the core of a person's desire for a relationship is their instinctual needs - which is primarily finding a mate with strong genes. The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

I think KingOtter's comment reflect this well. He and his wife have little in common and they do not communicate well. Yet, they stay together and my guess is that it is because of the primary need to reproduce effectively. I am guessing his last comment about Milano was a bit of a joke but I think it is illustrative - for most men they would risk a happy marriage to fulfill their primary instinctual need to have sex with the perfect woman.

I am very happily married - fantastically so. However, I am about 100% sure I would risk it all to have sex with Sunny Leone. We are just built like that.

btw - today is Mrs. Utah's and my 10th wedding anniversary and we have been together for 13 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Happy Anniversary, but who said those things were easy? I know some great people who are completely doomed in any relationship because they have been screwed over in the past and just cannot brings themselves to really trust that this new person won't do the same.

Not to mention that the world is filled with plenty of people with no desire to put the wants and needs of someone else in front of their own. If the relationship can't work entirely on their terms, [censored] it, move on to someone else.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Make sure your wife holds out on you for long periods of time. You'll love her even more!

[/ QUOTE ]Before you make such a cute little snappy one-liner you should go back and read what I said. My point in that thread was that sex was an overriding objective and to prove its importance you should go several days without it and without any other release. I did not recommend anything else.

But, hey.....keep up with the hilarious little comments as they are obviously working for you.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
but who said those things were easy?

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, I am saying that they simply dont work for most relationships as they dont address core needs.

[ QUOTE ]
I know some great people who are completely doomed in any relationship because they have been screwed over in the past and just cannot brings themselves to really trust that this new person won't do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]That is an interesting comment. I guess someone can be damaged to the point of not being able to have a relationship. However, I think in general people are very resilient.

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that the world is filled with plenty of people with no desire to put the wants and needs of someone else in front of their own. If the relationship can't work entirely on their terms, [censored] it, move on to someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]Aren't we all like that at the core? We may compromise to get what we ultimately want, but it has nothing to do with putting the needs of others in front of ours. I am a firm believer that every act we take is selfish in the end.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think KingOtter's comment reflect this well. He and his wife have little in common and they do not communicate well. Yet, they stay together and my guess is that it is because of the primary need to reproduce effectively.

[/ QUOTE ]

We've already reproduced, and yet we still stay together. And I have no desire to leave... don't get me wrong, my wife and I enjoy each other's company. We have a lot of fun.

We don't get hung up on petty differences or try to make the other person do what we want. We don't try to make the other person into someone they are not. You have to accept them as they are, at their core. This means you have to find out who they are, at their core, in the beginning.

That's why you can't prance and dance at the beginning of a relationship, putting on a show to attract your mate. You have to be who you are.

I think the reproduction 'need' you speak of is the first 2-3 months of the relationship... the chemical attraction, the lust, the desire. I don't see that as a real long-term need. And certainly not a relationship need.

Maybe in some women, the need to have someone guard over her children commits her to a man. But I don't feel the same protective instinct.

I have a rearing instinct, but find it usually comes down to wanting to make my boys into good, strong men, rather than a protective need.


[ QUOTE ]
btw - today is Mrs. Utah's and my 10th wedding anniversary and we have been together for 13 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congratulations! Our 10th was May 25th.

KO

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]

If it were that easy how come most marriages end in complete disaster? Respectfully, that advise sounds good on paper but almost never really works in practice.

Also, in regards to the original poster, I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships. At the core of a person's desire for a relationship is their instinctual needs - which is primarily finding a mate with strong genes. The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

I think KingOtter's comment reflect this well. He and his wife have little in common and they do not communicate well. Yet, they stay together and my guess is that it is because of the primary need to reproduce effectively. I am guessing his last comment about Milano was a bit of a joke but I think it is illustrative - for most men they would risk a happy marriage to fulfill their primary instinctual need to have sex with the perfect woman.

I am very happily married - fantastically so. However, I am about 100% sure I would risk it all to have sex with Sunny Leone. We are just built like that.

btw - today is Mrs. Utah's and my 10th wedding anniversary and we have been together for 13 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple - these things, simply said, are exremely hard for many people to actually make real.

Grats on the 10 years, give my regards to Idaho. Have a great day [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Who's the longest married in OOT, I wonder? I'll be 17 yrs in 4 monrths.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since working on inner feelings can greatly improve emotional state, and a better emotional state can signal stronger genes, then it seems logical that working on inner feelings can improve future relationships.

Wouldn't you'd agree that a person who works to improve their mental and emotional state will be more likely to have stronger, healthier personal relationships???

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post & congrats on 10 years.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

OP,

Most people are much more selfish on a day-to-day basis than people think just from knowing them socially/dating without living together.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. You have to be prepared to compromise
2. You have to be prepared to trust
3. You have to shake off any selfishness, and be prepared to put the needs/hopes of the other ahead of yours (sometimes, not all the time). Removing selfishness is extremely important if you are intending to have children, cos then, what's good for your children becomes paramount to pretty much anything.
4. You do have to find a place/space for your own time - even if it's 15 minutes in the bathroom each day reading the paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were that easy how come most marriages end in complete disaster? Respectfully, that advise sounds good on paper but almost never really works in practice.

Also, in regards to the original poster, I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships. At the core of a person's desire for a relationship is their instinctual needs - which is primarily finding a mate with strong genes. The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

I think KingOtter's comment reflect this well. He and his wife have little in common and they do not communicate well. Yet, they stay together and my guess is that it is because of the primary need to reproduce effectively. I am guessing his last comment about Milano was a bit of a joke but I think it is illustrative - for most men they would risk a happy marriage to fulfill their primary instinctual need to have sex with the perfect woman.

I am very happily married - fantastically so. However, I am about 100% sure I would risk it all to have sex with Sunny Leone. We are just built like that.

btw - today is Mrs. Utah's and my 10th wedding anniversary and we have been together for 13 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

All the things mentioned by DB are not "easy" and I don't think he was alluding to that. Those things are very difficult. One reason many marriages go busto in our culture is because - "3. You have to shake off any selfishness, and be prepared to put the needs/hopes of the other ahead of yours " - rarely happens to the extent need for a lifetime together.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships....The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes.

Since working on inner feelings can greatly improve emotional state, and a better emotional state can signal stronger genes, then it seems logical that working on inner feelings can improve future relationships.

Wouldn't you'd agree that a person who works to improve their mental and emotional state will be more likely to have stronger, healthier personal relationships???

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I think it is next to impossible to change one's emotional state with therapy/reflection and I would challenge your assertion that working on inner feeling helps emotional state. I once challenged on OOT for someone to produce a valid scientific study showing this. No one did.

But, lets say you could improve your emotional state through working on inner feelings [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I still think it would make little difference in your relationships because it wouldnt do much to help core instinctual needs. It may help you attract better mates, but there are MUCH better ways to do that than improving you emotional state.

I think we need to define what emotional state means - my interpetation of the OP was that it meant being able to feel, care, open up, trust, etc. IMHO, these things have almost no value anywhere any that are contrary to being a man.

However, if it means things like confidence, strength, drive, toughness, tenacity, honor, living by a code, etc. then it will have massive effects. But, to change those things one needs to be in the fight and to work hard, have discipline, make changes, accept challenges and take risks, fail and succeed, live through crisis, make tough/impossible decisions, etc. These traits can not be engineered through self reflection and "inner" work.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
believe working on inner feelings and crap like that will have about zero success in helping future relationships. At the core of a person's desire for a relationship is their instinctual needs - which is primarily finding a mate with strong genes. The emotional state of the partner has little to do with it except in how that emotional state signals strong or weak genes

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a fairly good understanding of evolutionary psychology. We are attracted to others who we think have good genes. There is a reason why woman [censored] the bad boy, but marry the safe guy. The bad boy conveys strong genes through his looks and attitude, whereas the safe guy conveys good genes through resources and security. By working on his emotional problems and learning to communicate and trust more, he can be a better parent and husband offering more security to a woman and her children. This makes him a more attractive mate.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reproduction 'need' you speak of is the first 2-3 months of the relationship... the chemical attraction, the lust, the desire. I don't see that as a real long-term need. And certainly not a relationship need.

[/ QUOTE ]There are 2 parts: the fun reproducing part and the child raising part. Humans are unique in that the time to raise a child is incredibly long. Therefore, if the man were to dissappear immediately after the mating part humans could not have developed into who we are today. The fact that men stuck around is what allowed the brain of humans to develop to such a high level. Therefore, for many men there is an instinctual need to stick around and help raise their children.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

I wish I could read these threads and come away with the idea that I really want to get married.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
Simple - these things, simply said, are exremely hard for many people to actually make real

[/ QUOTE ]Why are they hard to make real? Why dont they work for most people?

To me, the incredibly low success rate of such an approach signals that something is wrong somewhere with the relationship/marriage model. If we are to assume that such an approach is the only way to a successful marriage then can one conclude that marriage as an institution will never be more successful than it is today?

[ QUOTE ]
Who's the longest married in OOT, I wonder? I'll be 17 yrs in 4 months

[/ QUOTE ]17 years. Wow, that is a loooong time. Congrats.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are they hard to make real? Why dont they work for most people?

[/ QUOTE ]

cos we live in a me-me-me culture that really works against long-term commitment and losing selfishness, and to a lesser extent against trust and compromise too. The fantasy of 'having it all' is still prominent (even more so among female popular literature/culture), and it's ludicrous to think it's possible (though it's not a bad ideal to aspire to, but the difference would be lost on most).

I would agree marriage really doesn't suit a lot of people these days - fine, don't get married. However, if you're not willing to commit to each other for life (or at least the next 20+ years), you should not have children (okay, I'm swerving into Captain Obvious territory there, I'll stop now).

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
First, I think it is next to impossible to change one's emotional state with therapy/reflection and I would challenge your assertion that working on inner feeling helps emotional state. I once challenged on OOT for someone to produce a valid scientific study showing this. No one did.

But, lets say you could improve your emotional state through working on inner feelings, I still think it would make little difference in your relationships because it wouldnt do much to help core instinctual needs. It may help you attract better mates, but there are MUCH better ways to do that than improving you emotional state.

I think we need to define what emotional state means - my interpetation of the OP was that it meant being able to feel, care, open up, trust, etc. IMHO, these things have almost no value anywhere any that are contrary to being a man.

However, if it means things like confidence, strength, drive, toughness, tenacity, honor, living by a code, etc. then it will have massive effects. But, to change those things one needs to be in the fight and to work hard, have discipline, make changes, accept challenges and take risks, fail and succeed, live through crisis, make tough/impossible decisions, etc. These traits can not be engineered through self reflection and "inner" work.

[/ QUOTE ]
I respectfully disagree with your thoughts here. I will not bother looking for any kind of study info, my beliefs come from personal experience. I certainly don't think you are wrong, just that we differ in opinion. Seems like you and I have polar opposite feelings on the subject...

I'd be interested to hear Mrs Utah's feelings on the subject, and your comments.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyway, my question is basically this. What kind of advice would you give to someone about making relationships/marraiges work with success. It can be simple/obvious or just things you have learned as you have lived on through your relationships and/or marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't go to prostitutes. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=0&vc=1

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I respectfully disagree with your thoughts here.

[/ QUOTE ]I am curious as to what parts you disagree with? Are you saying that working on your emotional state is effective and you know this from personal experience? If so, I would be curious to hear your experiences if you are inclined to share. Also, I would be curious if other things were going on in your life as well and I would be curious as to causation versus correlation.

[ QUOTE ]
I will not bother looking for any kind of study info

[/ QUOTE ]No need to. I look hard and could not find one. I am never completely set in my view and I am totally open to opposing ideas and I change if the evidence dictates. However, I looked really hard and could not find valid studies.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be interested to hear Mrs Utah's feelings on the subject, and your comments.

[/ QUOTE ]Sure. She will be happy to respond. What would you like her to comment on exactly?

Re: Question for happily married people
 

The biggest thing for me was to realize that no marriage is perfect. The fairytale world of marriage foisted on us by popular entertainment is a completely myth. It will be hard sometimes and sometimes you'll wonder why you bothered. Dont expect it to be perfect, because it wont be. Try not to let petty arguments and issues obscure the big picture.

Cliffs Notes: Dont sweat the small stuff, marriage isnt perfect. Maximize the good times.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

In a word: honesty. Well, 2 words: honesty and communication.

You have to be honest about things that are deal breakers for you and communicate to find solutions or call it quits. Does she get really jealous when you eye a pretty girl? Be honest. "Look, I'm male, I like a pretty girl. When we're together I'll certainly try to keep my eyes more to myself, but you can't fly off the handle if I react to a pretty woman."

She might not like the answer, but she'll understand it. Whether she can accept it or not is her choice. On the other side, you have to honestly keep your gaze more discrete [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

That's just an example. My wife and I have always had a "nothing wrong with looking" rule, but I do try not to stare.

The 3 main things couples argue about are:
money
sex
children

You'd best figure out up front who controls the money. Few couples can have both people run the checkbook, it's just too make cooks in the kitchen. Someone will take the lead in that area and the other one has to defer to them.

Sex. Well, enough said. Either you're compatible or you aren't. Often it's a matter of admitting what you really like and being willing to remember sex is as much about pleasing your partner as yourself. If it were just about pleasing yourself, well, you could handle that on your own.

Children - this is a deal breaker. Either your on the same page or not.

Beyond that, compatibility is important in living styles. Is this someone you could stand as a roommate? Do they share similar tastes in cleanliness, being on time, etc? If not, those things are going to slowly eat at you. Be honest with each other about what bugs you if it's something you don't think you can live with. Pick your battles though. Do you really care that much if you have to put the toilet seat down every time you're done?

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
We are attracted to others who we think have good genes. There is a reason why woman [censored] the bad boy, but marry the safe guy. The bad boy conveys strong genes through his looks and attitude, whereas the safe guy conveys good genes through resources and security.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to get a bit off topic from the OP but I thought you made a very interesting statement........

Does she marry the safe guy because he has great genes or does she marry the safe guy because he has okay genes but can provide a safe and nurturing environment for her and her children? i.e., is she willing to sacrifice the best genes, the bad boy's, for a combination of good genes + security? Is her ideal scenario to marry the safe guy and get impregnated by the bad boy and trick the safe guy into raising the child?

There are many papers that say exactly this. The conclusions are staggeringly awful as to what they say about love, marriage, relationships, and the nature of what it means to be human. For example, if true, can you imagine a husband, who is deeply in love with his wife and who thinks she loves him the same, knowing that his wife traded superior genes for him and that she instinctually wants to carry a superior male's baby. Its unreal to think about the consequences.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
For example, if true, can you imagine a husband, who is deeply in love with his wife and who thinks she loves him the same, knowing that his wife traded superior genes for him and that she instinctually wants to carry a superior male's baby. Its unreal to think about the consequences.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, what do you think this says about someone like me?

I married a woman with 3 children, ages 5, 4 and 2 at the time. I don't think her ex was a "bad boy" really. I know him, he's mellow, but a terrible communicator (which is the main reason their marriage ended).

I willingly accepted fatherhood of 3 kids that aren't mine. I've loved them best I could, provided without question really anything they needed (they live with us about 90% of the time). I don't ask what anything costs, if they need it, I pay it. Braces, sports, clothes, whatever. Yea, we get child support, but it's nowhere close to what we pay out. I can see more of my personality in the youngest than his dad's personality, so I know my parental influence has had an impact. I chose to get a vasectomy as I really didn't want more kids and it's a very minor surgery, compared to my wife getting tubes tied which is pretty invasive and carries more risk.

Where's my "evolutionary" or "breeding" drive in those choices? I never had an ounce of regret about my choices. What was her evolutionary drive to pick me? Her ex was a good provider, made money, and he's a decent father, the communication (and implied trust) issues ended up a deal breaker.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

My wife and I have been married 28 years this August and I think the keys have been that we are very compatible and that we are both very low maintenance.

I firmly believe that if either party is a high maintenance type person, the marriage won't work.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We are attracted to others who we think have good genes. There is a reason why woman [censored] the bad boy, but marry the safe guy. The bad boy conveys strong genes through his looks and attitude, whereas the safe guy conveys good genes through resources and security.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to get a bit off topic from the OP but I thought you made a very interesting statement........

Does she marry the safe guy because he has great genes or does she marry the safe guy because he has okay genes but can provide a safe and nurturing environment for her and her children? i.e., is she willing to sacrifice the best genes, the bad boy's, for a combination of good genes + security? Is her ideal scenario to marry the safe guy and get impregnated by the bad boy and trick the safe guy into raising the child?

There are many papers that say exactly this. The conclusions are staggeringly awful as to what they say about love, marriage, relationships, and the nature of what it means to be human. For example, if true, can you imagine a husband, who is deeply in love with his wife and who thinks she loves him the same, knowing that his wife traded superior genes for him and that she instinctually wants to carry a superior male's baby. Its unreal to think about the consequences.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is off and over-thought - basically attractive people get married.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

seperate bathrooms

Re: Question for happily married people
 

Hi ckessel,

I have no idea what it says about you or your wife. Note, I am talking about instinctual drive and every decision we make doesnt fulfill our instinctual imperative to reproduce - only that the underlying instincts, emotions, etc. are a huge force in our lives.

For example, I love to eat ice cream bars. Now, eating the bar doesnt help me reproduce one bit. But, the desire for sweets is an underlying genetic survival principle.

I will leave out the more controversial comments [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is off and over-thought - basically attractive people get married.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never been to Birmingham, I take it.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
seperate bathrooms

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, Dom came in and nailed it with a mere two words.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is off and over-thought - basically attractive people get married

[/ QUOTE ]Sure. And of course, that is the most logical rebuttal.

But, I read an article (I may have posted it before??) that found that the best looking most symmetrical men have the most sexual partners, make the worst mates, and cheat on their spouses the most.

Also, there are studies (not sure how valid) that show that a when a woman cheats and that her body acts to favor the sperm of her lover over her mate. ie., she is looking for superior genes than her mates.

I think it is also a question of degree. It is not a question of an actual choice between a safe guy and a bad boy. Rather, there is an instinctual calculation that takes place when a woman decides to marry.

Of course, I am not saying this is certainly true. But, there is evidence pointing towards it. I am simply saying that if true it is pretty awful.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

Will be 8yrs in November.

Toro : congrats on 28yrs

DB : 'grats on 17!

Utah : Happy Anniversary to you and the Mrs.

Dom : at the very least, seperate sinks!

OP : see DB's first reply. Utah does a disservice by trivializing those points and steering the argument away from those things. Each of DB's points is critical. Each is difficult to prepare yourself for how critical it is. Both parties have to be willing ot put the other's needs ahead of their own. This doesn't meen being the woman's doormat. Its got to go both ways. Its great that you're working on your stuff, that will surely help.

I don't recall who posted about "dealbreakers" but when your ready to start "looking" again you should give the idea some thought. Are there things that are so totally incompattible with you and your personality that you won't be able to compromise on them for the next 20 - 50 years. Avoid those things. But keep in mind that "dammit, I'm playing cards once a week every f-ing week and no way a woman's going to change that!" isn't what I'm talking about. "its important that I get my 'guy' time and I need a woman that understands and supports that" can be a dealbreaker.

Utah: every time I read one of your posts about marriage/relationships I can't help but feel like I'm nothing more than the dog in your avatar. Seriously, you really believe that we are no more than breeding machines and that the need to survive and breed with the strongest gened partner we can find drives everything we do? Wow.

~FishNChips

Re: Question for happily married people
 

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Rather, there is an instinctual calculation that takes place when a woman decides to marry.

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I'm sure there is. I'm also equally sure it's not the only, or perhaps not even the main, calculation. It's part of the nuture vs. nature debate.

Writing off actions as primarily instinct driven gives license to a fatalistic "I can't help myself" mentality. Not acknowledging instinct guides us is equally egregious. When you feel a desire to take some action, it's good to understand what part of you spawned that reaction.

Re: Question for happily married people
 

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I'd be interested to hear Mrs Utah's feelings on the subject, and your comments.

[/ QUOTE ]Sure. She will be happy to respond. What would you like her to comment on exactly?

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How about this part?
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I am very happily married - fantastically so. However, I am about 100% sure I would risk it all to have sex with Sunny Leone. We are just built like that.

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Re: Question for happily married people
 

FishNChips:

Its pretty simple, Utah lives in a fantasy land where human thought is simply unable to overcome our primal instincts to any apprciable degree.