A Serious Question For Protestants Only

David Sklansky · #1 01-08-2006, 05:27 AM

There's this elderly professor of chemistry at Boston University. A wonderful chap who goes out of his way to do what he, and most people, think is right, and is quick to help his fellow man. His knowledge of science does nothing to lessen his fervent belief in God. On the contrary it just puts him more in awe of something that could do such wondrous deeds.

He is sure that God created the Universe. He is sure that God infuses souls into humans. He is sure that God loves us. He believes that no man actually deserves an afterlife with God because of his sinful nature but he thinks that God is merciful and will at least sometimes allow those who believe in him, love him and do good works to enter his kingdom. He hopes he gets lucky but doesn't expect it.

He believes in the values and morals of Christianity. He thinks the teachings of Jesus are spot on and everyone should adhere to them.

But Jesus himself he puts in the category of Moses. Not for any philosophical reason. He doesn't feel there are any bad repercussions if Jesus was the son of God. He doesn't passionately disbelieve in the resurrection. He just thinks it didn't happen. Based on his knowledge of science, history or whatever. Exactly why isn't important except to say again that it isn't some deeply held conviction that he feels is important to have. It is simply because his thoughts tell him that the divinity of Jesus, and the parts of the bible that proclaim it are, for some reason, in error.

Again though, he agrees with Christian moral teachings, follows them, loves God, and basically feels about God almost exactly the same way that Christians feel about the God-Jesus combination. Except that he is pretty sure that Jesus was merely a great teacher.

This guy has no chance of escaping hell if he can't change his thoughts?

BCPVP · #2 01-08-2006, 05:43 AM

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This guy has no chance of escaping hell if he can't change his thoughts?

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Exactly.

diebitter · #3 01-08-2006, 05:50 AM

Okay, he believes in God, right. Jesus is God, according to orthodox protestant teaching.

So of course he won't go to hell.

Do you see why?

siegfriedandroy · #4 01-08-2006, 02:06 PM

Most Christians would say you have to believe in the right 'God'. If I believe a rock is 'God', most Christians (I hope) would not say that this person is a believer.

godBoy · #5 01-08-2006, 06:14 AM

I don't think this person would go to hell.
Jesus said the greatest command was to love God.
He also said if you love me you will obey my commands.
I think if you love God you belong to Him.

siegfriedandroy · #6 01-08-2006, 02:03 PM

what about the above verses that Bond cited?

godBoy · #7 01-11-2006, 07:03 AM

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"He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life."

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I think the guy that David talked about believed in God the father, and heard the words of Jesus.

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"Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'"

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I don't think the bible says that baptism is a requirement for salvation. Jesus said something like 'Come to me and drink all who are thirsty' or 'whoever comes to me for drink will never thirst again'.

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"For by grace are ye saved through faith ... not of works."

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This is all on God's part - we don't have to do a thing.

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"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

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I believe that this is referring to life on earth, not eternity.

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"... if thou wilt enter unto life, keep the commandments."

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I think that Jesus was saying if you follow the commandments you will have the abundant life I was talking about...

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whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

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This is the point I cannot answer, only this friend of David's can know. It is a question of Jesus' identity, do you believe who I am?

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

This does not say "He who is baptised not shall be damned"
Belief in God is the requirement here... I think.

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"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

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I have said terrible things with my mouth and with the same mouth asked forgiveness. Not an issue of salvation. With words you accept Jesus offer.

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"whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

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Whoever seeks after God...

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According to Proverbs 16:4: God made the "wicked" for "the day of evil" (i.e. judgment & damnation). Of course, this makes no sense in light of passages that confirm or suggest that Jesus died for a small number of the elect; or that suggest all will be saved: John 1:29, 4:42, 1 Corinthians 15:29, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 4:14.

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John 1:29, 4:42, "Look the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world", I think that Jesus died for everyones individual sins, not just those who would believe in him. This does not suggest that everyone on earth will be saved, but that if they choose Him - it's already paid for.

Corinthians 15:29, points out the need for a ressurection. Not if you believe with your whole heart that it occured.

Hebrews 2:9, The same thing - he has seen and been through every pain that comes with each wrong we have committed.

1 John 4:14. The same thing. The offer is out there - anyone of the world can accept Jesus' invitation.

pkrNinja · #8 01-08-2006, 07:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There's this elderly professor of chemistry at Boston University. A wonderful chap who goes out of his way to do what he, and most people, think is right, and is quick to help his fellow man. His knowledge of science does nothing to lessen his fervent belief in God. On the contrary it just puts him more in awe of something that could do such wondrous deeds.

He is sure that God created the Universe. He is sure that God infuses souls into humans. He is sure that God loves us. He believes that no man actually deserves an afterlife with God because of his sinful nature but he thinks that God is merciful and will at least sometimes allow those who believe in him, love him and do good works to enter his kingdom. He hopes he gets lucky but doesn't expect it.

He believes in the values and morals of Christianity. He thinks the teachings of Jesus are spot on and everyone should adhere to them.

But Jesus himself he puts in the category of Moses. Not for any philosophical reason. He doesn't feel there are any bad repercussions if Jesus was the son of God. He doesn't passionately disbelieve in the resurrection. He just thinks it didn't happen. Based on his knowledge of science, history or whatever. Exactly why isn't important except to say again that it isn't some deeply held conviction that he feels is important to have. It is simply because his thoughts tell him that the divinity of Jesus, and the parts of the bible that proclaim it are, for some reason, in error.

Again though, he agrees with Christian moral teachings, follows them, loves God, and basically feels about God almost exactly the same way that Christians feel about the God-Jesus combination. Except that he is pretty sure that Jesus was merely a great teacher.

This guy has no chance of escaping hell if he can't change his thoughts?

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Paul the apostle said that if Jesus has not risen from the dead, then our faith is worthless and we are still dead in our sins. If Jesus has not been raised from the dead, then the Christian has no hope at all, and thus Christianity fails altogether.

And furthermore, if one denies the ressurection of Jesus, he denies a great portion of the New Testament which speaks about the ressurection. At which point is a person qualified to determine which parts of Gods word are real and which are not??

And to equate Jesus with Moses is a grave error. I would hope I can state this without an elaborate explanation, but if need be, we can delve further into this as well.

Chris Daddy Cool · #9 01-09-2006, 09:45 AM

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And to equate Jesus with Moses is a grave error. I would hope I can state this without an elaborate explanation, but if need be, we can delve further into this as well.

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an error if he is a "christian" thinker? or an error in respect that they simply cannot be compared in that way?

because that is exactly how muslims view jesus; a great prophet in the way that moses is a great prophet.

jstnrgrs · #10 01-10-2006, 09:18 PM

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Paul the apostle said that if Jesus has not risen from the dead, then our faith is worthless and we are still dead in our sins. If Jesus has not been raised from the dead, then the Christian has no hope at all, and thus Christianity fails altogether.

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Note that he did not say that if a person is not convinced that Jesus was raised for the dead, then his faith is worthless.

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And furthermore, if one denies the ressurection of Jesus, he denies a great portion of the New Testament which speaks about the ressurection. At which point is a person qualified to determine which parts of Gods word are real and which are not??

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This is a problem with protestantism in general (I am a protestant).

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And to equate Jesus with Moses is a grave error. I would hope I can state this without an elaborate explanation, but if need be, we can delve further into this as well.

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agreed