Why Would God Make It 100% Clear To You?

[BluffTHIS!]

My question below is primarily for non-believers, because most religious believers, and especially Christians, have an answer we believe. But for the rest of you:

If the God of Christianity or another religion is true, why would he make his existence and the truth of his religion clear to you? In particular, why would he make it crystal clear to the point of certainty, rather than not just clear enough?

Many of you here, have said it would take personally witnessing a miracle, that you knew with certainty could not have been contrived, or merely be scientifically explainable but just not by today's state of science. (And David called ridiculous the assertions of those who said they would not even believe with all those conditions met.) So again, why would a god want to make it that perfectly clear to you, if some religion is true?

Notice that the answer that this is a moot question because there is no god is not an answer, as for the purposes of this discussion, at least one god and at least one religion are posited as true.

[chezlaw]

Nothing is 100%
Clear enough would do
anything would be a start.

chez

[MidGe]

Hiya BluffTHIS, It would need to do so, the remedy the notion I have gained about such an entity, by looking at the world. He would have to turn things upsaide down in a manifest way, for its benevolence to have any credibility with me.

I am even prepared to accept its onmipotence but I will humanely stand against it. I want no part of its games.

If I was a fundamentalist christian, I would have to wonder if my beliefs were not the work of the devil, who in a very pernicious way would have set himself up as god and redefined good and evil in its fashion. I don't care if the whole world tells me something is white and where it may be written, if I see it as white, it is white for me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] However this sort of peer pressure is a phenomena well documented by psychologists which may even explain the phenomena of religion.

[Bork]

He should at least give people a fair shot before punishing them because they don't believe. Some divine acts would be nice.

Somebody miraculously recieving some funds to pay for their truck does not count. Neither does Warner and the rams winning the superbowl. It has to be something that an unbiased intelligent person would judge to be an act of God.


Moreover, what kind of morally perfect being would punish people for their religious beliefs or lack thereof? It is intolerance and bigotry in the purest form.

[chrisnice]

[ QUOTE ]


If the God of Christianity or another religion is true, why would he make his existence and the truth of his religion clear to you? In particular, why would he make it crystal clear to the point of certainty, rather than not just clear enough?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the clear enough standard is certainly reasonable, but I can see how others might feel entitled to 100% certainty.

For one, most churches claim that God is performing miracles all the time. Why do only some get this benefit of 100% clarity.

Secondly, that is what I believe God promises us. My scripture recolection is a little hazy but doesnt He say that those who seek Him shall find him and know with certainty? Its just a matter of remembering that he did show himself clearly and not allowing outside influences to shed doubt on that.

[hmkpoker]

Well, to answer this one would have to ask what God's purpose is creating us, and as far as I can see, making his presence well-known seems to be useful.

1) God wants us to worship, love, and glorify him. Well, what better way to get people to worship, love and glorify you than to first prove you exist.

2) God wants us to live wonderful, happy, heavenly lives. Ah, so there's a place, for which no empirical evidence exists, that my "soul," an object also for which no empirical evidence exists, will go to after I die that's infinitely better than earthly pleasure, and all I have to do is forsake it and believe in Jesus to get there? Well, okay, can I please have some evidence that any of these things exist before I decide to stop living in a manner that has proven emotionally, intellectually and physically satisfying for years?

Put yourself in the atheist's shoes for a second. We don't follow God because we know he exists and choose to be rebellious, we do it because he doesn't seem to exist. To his credit, he has a book filled with inconsistencies, laws that no longer apply, and a striking similarity to other holy books. It claims that the authors were "inspired," an unfalsifiable claim also shared by other religions. The book reflects an incentive to control the masses. His creation shows no significant evidence of design, for reasons that have been addressed dozens of times already in this forum. The supposed miracles that have occured in his name are either vague testimonies, overblown coincidences, or feats easily duplicated or even surpassed by stage magic. God has no more credibility to us than Allah or Brahman. Each created an imperfect world, each sent a couple of people to write books in confirmation of their existence, and each has some half-assed miracles and vague prophecies to back them up.

Finally, the notion of believing without empirical evidence as a virtue is absurd, and not applicable anywhere except religion, and arguably Santa Claus. This virtue asks us to turn our backs on the forms of critical thinking that have been the cornerstone of all human progress.

So yeah, I don't believe, and I think I have pretty good reasons not to believe. And Christians don't really have much of an argument, in my opinion, and in the opinion of millions of atheists. A talking burning bush, however, would be the start of something; I can't imagine any other sort of thing that could get me to believe in God, and since my belief in God is allegedly important to God, shouldn't he do something about it, rather than leaving my skeptical mind with insuffient information that will end up damning me for eternity?

The real question is, why wouldn't he make it crystal clear?



(Incidentally, I won over $300 at 5-10 while I typed this post.)

[kurto]

Why wouldn't he? EVERY religion relies on faith.

What is the conception of God that presents this choice to people:
He lets people all over earth hear dozens of religions. Every single one of them says, "my religion is the right one. All the others are wrong and you will go to hell (or something similar) if you don't believe. Choose correctly."

So, say you're given 12 religions to choose from, and if you pick the right one, you are saved. Otherwise... burn.

The proof that one religion is the right one: NOTHING. You are supposed to believe the advocates of that religion who all say; "you must have faith."

So... assuming one of them is correct; then "God" allows all these conflicting religions, all with the same proof (ie... none) and says, "Gamble for your soul."

God would make it clear so that your free will has more meaning. "Hey, I exist. Now you can choose whether or not you want to follow my rules. Its your choice, you have free will."

[Phil153]

He shouldn't. Maybe he's testing us.

But it seems like a pretty petty mind game for the creator of 50 billion galaxies and life itself. Any God with any sophistication would create the universe and leave it in peace. If God did exist he never would have gotten involved with humans in the first place.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. He wouldn't do X or Y or Z miracle, reveal himself to non believers, or cure someone of childhood cancer or stop a tsunami, or stop a child from being raped, but he WILL answer your petty prayers and have a personal relationship with YOU. And he DID perform miracles in the past via Jesus and certain CATHOLIC dudes. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BluffTHIS!]

Here is a related question for some of you non-believers: why would God want to make it clear to YOU specifically if he does exist?

[MidGe]

In fairness or justice, since he seems to make it clear to you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]