Queston for Not Ready, BluffTHIS etc

[David Sklansky]

As to the following posted by Bossjj:

"During the first Gulf War, Israel agreed not to retaliate against Iraq. So all they could do was pray. People were afraid of a gas attack via a scud missile, or that one might hit a very populated area, killing dozens of civilians. Many secular Israelis joined the religious in reciting Psalms and praying for safety. 39 scud missiles did hit targets in Israel, causing millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings, but not killing a single person. The one casualty was a man who survived an attack but died of a heart attack the next day."

So assuming that the prayers came only from adament non believers in Chritianity and Jesus, can we thus assume (from your point of view of course) that the lack of casualties had nothing to do with those prayers? (I am not saying that they had nothing to do with God. Just the prayers themselves.)

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
As to the following posted by Bossjj:

"During the first Gulf War, Israel agreed not to retaliate against Iraq. So all they could do was pray. People were afraid of a gas attack via a scud missile, or that one might hit a very populated area, killing dozens of civilians. Many secular Israelis joined the religious in reciting Psalms and praying for safety. 39 scud missiles did hit targets in Israel, causing millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings, but not killing a single person. The one casualty was a man who survived an attack but died of a heart attack the next day."

So assuming that the prayers came only from adament non believers in Chritianity and Jesus, can we thus assume (from your point of view of course) that the lack of casualties had nothing to do with those prayers? (I am not saying that they had nothing to do with God. Just the prayers themselves.)

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Christians would have no trouble accepting that the prayers may have been the reason since we believe in the same God as Jewish faith. BossJJ probably has some issues with me saying that though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to the following posted by Bossjj:

"During the first Gulf War, Israel agreed not to retaliate against Iraq. So all they could do was pray. People were afraid of a gas attack via a scud missile, or that one might hit a very populated area, killing dozens of civilians. Many secular Israelis joined the religious in reciting Psalms and praying for safety. 39 scud missiles did hit targets in Israel, causing millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings, but not killing a single person. The one casualty was a man who survived an attack but died of a heart attack the next day."

So assuming that the prayers came only from adament non believers in Chritianity and Jesus, can we thus assume (from your point of view of course) that the lack of casualties had nothing to do with those prayers? (I am not saying that they had nothing to do with God. Just the prayers themselves.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Christians would have no trouble accepting that the prayers may have been the reason since we believe in the same God as Jewish faith. BossJJ probably has some issues with me saying that though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So god answers the prayers of people who he plans to send to hell? Now wheres the sense in that

[BluffTHIS!]

I believe that God hears and answers appropriately the prayers of any sincere righteous person (or one striving to be righteous), regardless of their religion. Even if believers in some religions have a lot of it wrong, they also have an important part of it right, in that there is a God and he loves His children. Thus although other posters (you know who) will disagree, I believe that God gives partial credit.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to the following posted by Bossjj:

"During the first Gulf War, Israel agreed not to retaliate against Iraq. So all they could do was pray. People were afraid of a gas attack via a scud missile, or that one might hit a very populated area, killing dozens of civilians. Many secular Israelis joined the religious in reciting Psalms and praying for safety. 39 scud missiles did hit targets in Israel, causing millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings, but not killing a single person. The one casualty was a man who survived an attack but died of a heart attack the next day."

So assuming that the prayers came only from adament non believers in Chritianity and Jesus, can we thus assume (from your point of view of course) that the lack of casualties had nothing to do with those prayers? (I am not saying that they had nothing to do with God. Just the prayers themselves.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Christians would have no trouble accepting that the prayers may have been the reason since we believe in the same God as Jewish faith. BossJJ probably has some issues with me saying that though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So god answers the prayers of people who he plans to send to hell? Now wheres the sense in that

[/ QUOTE ]

It would make no sense if that was a belief I held. But I dont.

[adhoc]

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Christians ... believe in the same God as Jewish faith

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This is not strictly true. Christians and Jews both believe in the God of the Old Testament, but the agreement ends there. Christians believe that the God of the Old Testament was incarnate in Jesus of Nazareth - as the famous phrase in John 1 would have it, that "the Word was God" and "the Word was made flesh." Jews do not believe that the God of the Old Testament was incarnate in Jesus. Therefore, because one attribute of the God Christians believe in is that he was incarnate in Jesus, and because one attribute of the God Jews believe in is that he was not incarnate in Jesus, they cannot both believe in the same God.

To say that they do believe in the same God, and that they ascribe different characteristics to him, is not a coherent position. To illustrate. Most Christians would not agree that the Brahman of Hinduism is the same as the God they believe in; but many Hindus believe that the Brahman, in the character of Vishnu, was incarnate in Jesus. Because Christians do not believe in the person of Vishnu and the attendant doctrines surrounding belief in him, most would be uncomfortable with the statement that they worship the same God as Hindus. To make such an imposition on them is equally as inaccurate as it is to make the imposition upon Jews that they believe in the same God as Christians.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Christians ... believe in the same God as Jewish faith

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not strictly true. Christians and Jews both believe in the God of the Old Testament, but the agreement ends there. Christians believe that the God of the Old Testament was incarnate in Jesus of Nazareth - as the famous phrase in John 1 would have it, that "the Word was God" and "the Word was made flesh." Jews do not believe that the God of the Old Testament was incarnate in Jesus. Therefore, because one attribute of the God Christians believe in is that he was incarnate in Jesus, and because one attribute of the God Jews believe in is that he was not incarnate in Jesus, they cannot both believe in the same God.

To say that they do believe in the same God, and that they ascribe different characteristics to him, is not a coherent position. To illustrate. Most Christians would not agree that the Brahman of Hinduism is the same as the God they believe in; but many Hindus believe that the Brahman, in the character of Vishnu, was incarnate in Jesus. Because Christians do not believe in the person of Vishnu and the attendant doctrines surrounding belief in him, most would be uncomfortable with the statement that they worship the same God as Hindus. To make such an imposition on them is equally as inaccurate as it is to make the imposition upon Jews that they believe in the same God as Christians.

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Im well aware of the theological differences between the two. But my answer was completely accurate with regards to the question asked.

[Zygote]

can you please explain to me why you don't think they are going to hell and, more importantly, why many christians do?

[adhoc]

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Im well aware of the theological differences between the two. But my answer was completely accurate with regards to the question asked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if one assumes

1) that Christians believe that Jews worship the same God as they do, in which case - if one grants that it is not possible for the same God to have two contradictory attributes - one also assumes that Christians are wrong, making the statement "Christians ... believe in the same God as [the] Jewish faith" not useful.

or 2) that Jews believe that they worship the same God as Christians do, which no Jews (in this case an ethnic distinction, not related to the "Jewish faith")who do not fall under some theological stripe of Christianity (so-called "Messianic Jews" or "Hebrew Christians") believe. In this case the statement is false as a general proposition and in the few cases that are exceptions, it is tautological, identical to saying that Christians believe in the same God as Christians. Again, this is not useful.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
As to the following posted by Bossjj:

"During the first Gulf War, Israel agreed not to retaliate against Iraq. So all they could do was pray. People were afraid of a gas attack via a scud missile, or that one might hit a very populated area, killing dozens of civilians. Many secular Israelis joined the religious in reciting Psalms and praying for safety. 39 scud missiles did hit targets in Israel, causing millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings, but not killing a single person. The one casualty was a man who survived an attack but died of a heart attack the next day."

So assuming that the prayers came only from adament non believers in Chritianity and Jesus, can we thus assume (from your point of view of course) that the lack of casualties had nothing to do with those prayers? (I am not saying that they had nothing to do with God. Just the prayers themselves.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you get the assumption that only believers in God can communicate with him?

We all know Mason Malmuth is just a fairytale made up by 2+2 to inspire young gamblers, yet i've written and recieved a few nice PM's from/to him.

fim