Summer plans, what to buy (supplements)?

[GooseHinson]

Over the next 4-5 months, I'd like to gain 25-30lbs of (mostly) muscle through aggressive training and proper eating. I'm not new to the gym and working out, but I am (relatively) new to proteins, supplements and the like. After going through many of the old threads in OOT and this forum, I've put together a list of products I'll be ordering from bodybuilding.com (anybody have any negative experiences with them or strong reason I should buy elsewhere?).

Early morning:


Muscle Milk (probably one of the bigger tubs of chocolate or cookies and cream to save on shipping) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cs/milk.html)

Pre workout:
Syntrax Nectar (apple or lemonade) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/syn/nectar.html)

Post Workout:
Optimum after max (chocolate) (http://http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/after.html)

Now this product contains creatine, but should I order some plain creatine to also take during another part of the day or is the 5g in this stuff enough?

Before bed:

Muscle Milk again


Now if anyone has any other recommendations or reasons why I shouldn't get these products or get something else instead, I would love to hear them. I'll be starting this regiment as soon as exams are finished (few weeks)and hope to work out 5-6 times per week, depending how I feel.

Few other things...

What's the deal with rest days? How should I diet/take supplements on those day?

Also, I have a super fast metabolism and can't seem to gain weight no matter what I do (hopefully this will change soon!)...Should I consider taking weight gainers, and if so, can you recommend one from bodybuilding.com?

All help much appreciated guys, look forward to starting a log soon!

Edit: Ahhhh! Muscle Milk is not available to be shipped to Canada? Is this some kind of regulation or something? Any Canadians have tips on getting it or a good alternative from this site (good taste too)?

[skunkworks]

Goose, it's going to be real tough for you to put on 25-30 lbs and not have a large portion of that be fat. The estimated limit of lean mass gain is about .25-.50 lbs/week, which puts you at around 2-3 lbs of lean mass every month. In addition, you won't have the benefit of the huge strength and mass gains that rank beginners get. Doing 15-20 is doable without much fat gain; 25 is pushing it if you don't want to look pudge.

5g/day of creatine is enough, but you may want to consider getting a separate jar of creatine so that you can take it on the days you're not working out. I would not want to drink that After Max stuff on days you don't work out -- high GI carbs should only be taken for workout nutrition.

You're going to get your ass beat working out 5-6 times a week if you're doing the right exercises. By "right exercises" I mean the big compound lifts that are most efficient at packing on pounds: deadlifts, squats, etc. To be honest, instead of doing 5-6 times a week, I'd concentrate on 3-4 intense workouts a week, giving yourself an off-day in between each session.

As far as other supplements go, find a good multivitamin and some fish oil capsules. Even those aren't crucial.

As a side note, you may want to review some nutrition-related subjects to figure out which protein supplements you should be taking and why you are taking them. Since you're looking for big mass gains while having body composition concerns, you'll really want to brush up on this stuff.

[GooseHinson]

Skunk, thanks for the advice!

I will grab a tub of creatine for my off days. Also, as for the weight gain composition, of course I'd prefer it be muscle, but I just want to be generally bigger and cut. If this can be achieved with moderate fat and water gains, then so be it.

As for getting my ass beat, Sept-Dec (while I was single haha) I was in the gym 4 and sometimes 5 days a week doing compound lifts and feeling fine (alternating squat/deadlifts each time). I'm sure 5-6 times consistently for 4 months and maybe longer will be rough, but I should be able to handle it.

Any thoughts on weight gainers?

[anklebreaker]

Weight gainers work, but most are filled with empty calories/gross crap. It's much better, IMO, to eat really well in high quantities and supplement with quality proteins. See the "What Bodybuilders Eat" thread.

I agree with skunk on the crea, multi-v, and fish oil. I also recommend glutamine (there was a debate about this previously, so take it with a grain of salt.)

[bluef0x]

Personally, I wouldn't get the lemonade flavor /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[skunkworks]

Goose, looks like you're ready to roar. GL and post updates.

Weight gainer (http://www.erikandanna.com/Humor/FlashStuff/SouthPark/beefcake.htm) is garbage -- it's usually just one or two servings of whey and casein protein along with a metric [censored] ton of sugar (maltodextrin and dextrose, two extremely high GI sugars). Strangely, dextrose and maltodextrin on Nutrition Info labels do not count as sugars. No clue why. So when you see one serving of weight gainer with 200g of carbs but minimal amount of sugars, it's because it isn't being counted.

[GooseHinson]

Ok, I guess I'll pass on the weight gainer then...

Do you guys have any suggestions on an alternative for muscle milk or a way I could get some here in Canada?

[mattnxtc]

My brother thinks weight gainers are amazing. He was lifting and drinkin one everyday...gained like 10-15lbs...then he stopped and lost it all...He told me he didnt feel that taking between 5k-7k calories a week out of his diet was why he lost weight haha...

moral of the story...sure ull gain weight but its not going to be all that sustainable over the long run

[death_blooms]

I tried Syntrax Nectar at the Arnold Classic and it tasted absolutely horrible, more power to you if you can get it down.

[Spellmen]

I see a ton of people taking different protein supplements at different points in the day. I sort of get the quick absorbing/slow absorbing thing, but is it really a huge benefit? I ask because for the most part I hate the thick, milky chocolate, vanilla milkshake stuff. The only stuff I have been able to take with regularity is Syntrax Nectar (tastes like low quality jello or something). Is the benefit enough that I should stop being a huge pussy and just down the nasty crap, or am I generally fine with taking Nectar pre/post, snack, etc?

As for creatine, I've read that a good bit of the weight you put on initially is extra water weight. If you took creatine for some time and then stopped, would you lose the weight, strength gains you got from taking it?

[Thremp]

Goose,

If you are really trying to gain weight, your biggest fight with be with the fork.

[skunkworks]

Spellmen - protein supplementation is an issue of convenience. If you have trouble getting enough protein in on a consistent basis throughout the day, or if you're unable to get a small meal or snack with protein in it, it might be worth it to buy a meal replacement-type powder (Muscle Milk, etc.). Otherwise, food is fine.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Spellmen - protein supplementation is an issue of convenience. If you have trouble getting enough protein in on a consistent basis throughout the day, or if you're unable to get a small meal or snack with protein in it, it might be worth it to buy a meal replacement-type powder (Muscle Milk, etc.). Otherwise, food is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's also really freaking hard to eat six good, well-rounded meals in a day. Eating three good solid meals and drinking three protein shakes is easier on my stomach, my mandibles, and like you said way more convenient. Protein shakes don't taste great, but they don't taste horrible either. And you can always just chug one down and chase it with water.

[GooseHinson]

[ QUOTE ]
Goose,

If you are really trying to gain weight, your biggest fight with be with the fork.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thremp, I know you're right and this is what I've been struggling with. In the past, when I've been in intense working out phases, I've noticed my appetite increases alot (I'm counting on this). Of course I'll keep my fridge alot more stacked then before too. Hopefully I'll be able to down 4 nice meals a day and 3-4 shakes.

Next week (the 18-19th) I'll post some before pictures and get this program underway. At some point this week I'll need to pick up supplements and proteins either online or at the local GNC type place. I still haven't found a solid replacement for Muscle Milk or a way to get it in Canada...again any suggestions on what to get/do for this are much appreciated.

[1C5]

Let me just respond to your PM here in case others may want to see it:

Yeah, I have very similiar goals to you. I started in mid January at 174 lbs and am now at ~195 so some nice gains in a few months. I would be at 200 by now except I hurt my back last week so have not been to the gym in 10 days. And over the holidays I did not eat enough (Easter in Canada).

But I am starting to feel better so will be back in the gym soon.

I am not sure if there are an Canadian Superstores in Ontario, but if not any bulk store will have dextrose for around $1 a pound which is the exact same stuff that health food or supplement stores sell for $5+ a pound.

I have used creatine and will continue to use it with about 2-3 weeks off every couple of months.

Never any weight gainers but muscle milk is almost a weight gainer as it has around 600 calories with milk for a serving.

There is a place in Canada to get Muscle Milk. www.supplementscanada.com (http://www.supplementscanada.com) has Muscle Milk and at $37.99 CDN it is pretty pricey in Canada. It costs ~$20US. But you can order it if you don't mind paying a little more.

I usually just bring back some supplements from the states with me when I go as they are a lot cheaper there.

So it has been covered in this thread...everything you need to grow is in this thread. Heavy, basic compound movements in the gym, lots of rest outside the gym, not too much (if any) cardio and enough calories to grow. My magic number seems to be 4000 or so for bulking.

As for the proteins I just use Syntrax Nectar and Muscle Milk. Syntrax 2 scoops and 90g dextrose after workout, and Muscle Milk for throughout the day/before bed.

[1C5]

And check if www.massnutrition.com (http://www.massnutrition.com) will ship to Canada as they are where I get Muscle Milk from when I am in the US, very good price.

[CharlieDontSurf]

1c5..the weight you gained..was it muscle but chubby muscle or do u still look fit etc
I see this muscular olympic lifters..but if i were them i wouldnt be proud to take my shirt off at the beach

[1C5]

No, I still look fit, I am an athlete and still wear the same 32 inch pants as when I was 174 lbs so no problem there for me.

[CharlieDontSurf]

what workout program did u do? any cardio?

[1C5]

Cardio was limited to 1-2x a week as I wanted to focus on bulking.

Workout plan was(/is) ~5x a week gym, one bodypart per workout, basic compound movements, very heavy, usually 6-10 reps.

Around 4 excerises per bodypart, except 3 for biceps and triceps and 2 for calves. Each excerise had 3-4 sets.

[GooseHinson]

Thanks for your response 1C5, I'll definately look into placing my order at supplementscanada.com or massnutrition.com.

Hopefully I can achieve the same results as you have as well. For a reference point, what were your 1RM (~roughly) before you started and now?

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Cardio was limited to 1-2x a week as I wanted to focus on bulking.

Workout plan was(/is) ~5x a week gym, one bodypart per workout, basic compound movements, very heavy, usually 6-10 reps.

Around 4 excerises per bodypart, except 3 for biceps and triceps and 2 for calves. Each excerise had 3-4 sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow...u must have been in good condition before u started cuz that seems like not enough rest time to recover

[1C5]

well each bodypart has 7 days before it is hit again, this split has always worked best for me and I have tried many.

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
For a reference point, what were your 1RM (~roughly) before you started and now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I never do 1RM so I have no clue but for bench press for example, started at ~175 lbs for 6 reps in January and am now at 225 lbs for 6 reps. So 50 lb gain. Lots of that is muscle memory though as I used to do 225 no problem.

[CharlieDontSurf]

have u ever posted yr full log with each days exercise n set/rep etc?

curious...this seems like it is the eaxct opposite of rippletoe...

[GooseHinson]

[ QUOTE ]
have u ever posted yr full log with each days exercise n set/rep etc?

curious...this seems like it is the eaxct opposite of rippletoe...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea 1C5, I'd be interested in your full workout as well. I just have 2 workouts myself (squats/half upper body and DL+other half) and I alternated. I never really put much thought into it, but if your workout has worked for you, I'd love to hear it.

[1C5]

I didn't even know what the rippletoe program is so I looked it up.

"Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. (http://www.startingstrength.com.) It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains."


1. It looks like it is for a beginner. I have been working out for over 8 years now (off and on) so not a beginner.

2. Looks like a good program but I like mine.

3. 30-40 lbs in 6 months is impressive but I expect that same result from my program. I think eating is 10x more important than your specific program anyway. (as long as you arn't making any huge mistakes)


I don't have any workouts posted but I guess I could start a log if there is enough interest.
Or at least post a few workouts.

[CharlieDontSurf]

im interested..also i really want to steal yr dog n take it home with me

[GooseHinson]

I'm also interested 1C5, feel free to post it here or start a new thread.