DB Cleans

[Thremp]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1470868&pageNo=0

Interesting discussion. I'm not a fan of CP. I like DB snatches, not sure I like the clean style ones. Seems like the 3rd pull would be very awkward with them. Regardless the cheap shotting at other coaches is ghey.

Thoughts?

[cbloom]

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I'm not a fan of CP.


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Why not?

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I like DB snatches, not sure I like the clean style ones. Seems like the 3rd pull would be very awkward with them.


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They look like it would be very hard to do heavy weight with good form. I can't really say if they're safe if done properly but it definitely looks like something I would never have a beginner do.

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Regardless the cheap shotting at other coaches is ghey.


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I didn't pick up any cheap-shotting in the original article at all. I guess there are some snyde remarks in the DB lifts section, but if you don't know the background of the site you wouldn't really know they're shots at other people there.

BTW in general it seems like T-Nation becomes a snarky ego fest at times.

[Colt McCoy]

I know Thremp isn't a fan, but I do both power cleans and snatches with a kettlebell. A lot of people do very high volume and some lift fairly heavy with them and I haven't heard of any shoulder injury problem associated with them before. The movement is definitely a bit different with kettlebells though and his discussion of where the weight falls at different points in the lift would be different. However, his mention tennis/golf elbow is definitely spot on. If you read dragondoor.com, you'll see numerous mentions of it, but almost everyone works through that fairly quickly.

[Thremp]

cbloom,

He comes off as very elitist and I some of his stuff is just crap. For someone who is widely considered the leading strength coach on the planet, he's pretty much the bellwether for that snarky ego-fest behavior I think we both disdain.

I think you can maintain good form with a DB snatch. I doubt I'd ever test a 1RM on it, I use it more for higher rep work and have noticed it does put some decent size on. I like one arm variants more since your off arm can "spot" you in case something happens etc. FWIW I'm usually doing power snatches so there is no 3rd pull in these.

Colt,

Its not that I don't like them. I don't think they're necessary or a sub for regular weightlifting. They're good for ancillary training. Like maybe taking a short mesocycle focusing on KB lifts for a month or so and using KBs at other times for various other things. It just seems loading is very set and tough to manage and since most people have to special order them, much more costly than typical workouts. Now if commercial gyms had KBs in varying weights I'd probably be on board with using them more often as a way to vary stimuli but without really changing it too much.

[SmileyEH]

I think dumbell snatches are a great addition to any workout regime really, while db cleans are probably best just used as a perfectly fine substitute for barbell cleans. The snatch is great because it is just one arm and takes a lot of full body stability and strength to execute well (with a deep drop underneat aka 3rd pull).

Cleans just seem awkward to me as well, especially with a lot of weight. But if someone is working out from home and just wants to use dumbells I see no problem to doing them. I've read the article before (it was discussed on crossfit) and pretty much everyone came to the conclusion that his arguement for them being dangerous is pretty weak.

[Thremp]

Smiley,

I think a problem is that Paul Chek's hand position seems awkward catching them in a semi-supinated grip. If he stuck with the std grip, I'd like them more. Also I think the bulk of the dumbbell makes the catching part more difficult.

[anklebreaker]

A buncha boxing and parkour (crossfit-type) coaches like Ross Enamait advocate dumbell cleans and snatches. I don't see much problem with them at low weights or with KBs; however, I feel there's no reason not to replace them with something that might be a lot safer.