cbloom's log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder

[cbloom]

I'm gonna try to maintain a log. I'm in a different situation than all the fatties trying to drop weight, thought it might be interesting to see the difference.

Background :

I've always been pretty fit and worked out hard. About 6 months ago I crashed my bicycle and separated my shoulder. It's healed, but I still have lingering frozen shoulder. It's just recently gotten to the point where I can work out again, but I've lost a lot of strength. So, my goal is to get back in shape now. I want to get my cardio & overall fitness back & also restore strength / add muscle.

Current stats : 6'1" , 185 lbs. Desired weight is 190 lbs, but at a lower body fat %.

I've never done Rippetoe's program before so I thought I'd try that as my initial phase for quickly adding muscle. My schedule looks like this :

M,W,F : Rippetoe A/B workouts
T,Th,S : Physical Therapy for my shoulder and other little workouts (abs, cardio)
Sun : rest

For my diet, I'm just eating pretty normally, but trying to eliminate any empty calories (things like chocolate) and just eat as much lean protein as I can stand to help add muscle. I do a protein shake immediately after the workout.

[cbloom]

Here are some links on the Rippetoe program :

The main link :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official Rippetoe-Starting Strength FAQ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

More junk :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752
Writeup for Rippetoe's program - Bodybuilding.com Forums

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=841628
14 weeks of Rippetoe's Starting Strength - Bodybuilding.com Forums

One problem I have is that with the frozen shoulder I still can't do a normal squat and I can't do a military press. At the moment I'm doing Hack Squats instead of normal squats. Hopefully I'll be able to do a normal squat soon.

This is a good article on hack squats & front squats, but anyone who can should just do a normal squat.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459865
Testosterone Nation - Forgotten Squats

Instead of military presses I'm doing incline bench with as much of an incline as I can manage, about 45 degrees. I'm just going to keep making that steeper as I get more range of motion in my shoulder.

[skunkworks]

cbloom, nice on the Rippetoe. Do you not have enough flexibility in your shoulder joint to hold the bar properly?

Edit: Also, I'd move your third link up to the first position since it's the "authoritative" thread. The other one is somewhat misleading.

[cbloom]

This is what I did in the last workouts : (the weight is the amount on each side, and not counting the bar, so the real weight is X2 and + the bar weight, which is around 45 lbs)

Rippetoe A :
Bench 45
Hack Squat 60
Dead Lift 70

Rippetoe B :
Hack Squat 65
Pendlay Row 30
Incline Bench 40


At the moment I'm limited by wierd things; my squats & dead lifts are giving out because of grip strength and my bench really bothers my shoulder so I'm not doing nearly as much weight as I could. I'm doing the reps pretty slow and trying to use really good control and form to make sure I don't hurt myself during recovery.

My goal is to add about 5 lbs each week. BTW the physical therapy is 100X harder than the workout. Ugh it sucks so bad.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
cbloom, nice on the Rippetoe. Do you not have enough flexibility in your shoulder joint to hold the bar properly?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I can't get my hand behind the bar to stabilize it. When it was separated I had my arm in an immobilizer so I didn't user it at all. When I first got it out, almost any movement was painful, but I could do things directly in front of me (like typing). The physical therapy is to stretch the shoulder capsule and increase range of motion. Now I can hold my arms straight out at my side, but can't lift it over my head very far or go back behind my back. I can just barely do a bench press and get the bar down to my chest.

I'm pretty close to being able to do a proper squat, so hopefully I'll switch to that in a few weeks and won't be held back by grip any more. People said a hack squat was really natural but I find it really tough to keep good form, I really want to arch my back and it's awkward the way the bar hits the back of your leg on the way up.

[thirddan]

i got my copy of starting strength the other day...reading the squat section now...its great...

[skunkworks]

thirddan, best book ever. After you've read that over a couple times, get his other book on Amazon. It's called Practical Programming, and it goes hand-in-hand with Starting Strength.

cbloom, I'm guessing front squats don't work either with the shoulder?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

cbloom, I'm guessing front squats don't work either with the shoulder?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's geometrically possible for me to do them, but it hurts bad to rest the weight on the front of the shoulder like that. It was a toss-up for me between doing those and the hack squats and the hacks were better on my arm so I went with that.

[thirddan]

[ QUOTE ]
thirddan, best book ever. After you've read that over a couple times, get his other book on Amazon. It's called Practical Programming, and it goes hand-in-hand with Starting Strength.

cbloom, I'm guessing front squats don't work either with the shoulder?

[/ QUOTE ]

both rippetoe books came together (amazon had a package deal) free shipping, both for $50...reading SS first so i can get proper form, doing a t-nation program before making my own...look forward to finishing both though...

[skunkworks]

cbloom's quote from another thread:

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'm not sure if there's really a lot of benefit to doing ATG instead of just going down to parallel. I know the experts tell you to go ATG, but if it's not comfortable, is it really a big deal if you just go to parallel?

[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't sure whether I should address this here or there, so I chose here.

I get way more activation of the hamstrings, glutes, and even the groin muscles when I go deep past parallel. The other benefit is that by going deeper, it naturally forces my hamstrings to stretch and helps me work on some of my flexibility issues. You seem to disagree about this though?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to disagree about this though?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't have long-term experience with doing ATG so I can't really comment. At the moment I'm doing the hack squats and can't really get below parallel because the plates hit the ground. Once I start doing regular squats I'll be trying to do ATG.

Rippetoe A today
bench 45
hack squat 65
dead lift 75

Bench is getting limited cuz my shoulder was acting up.
I screwed up and shoulda done more on hack squat. I need to start taking my weight #'s with me to the gym I remembered it wrong.

[cbloom]

Rippetoe A today
bench 47.5
hack squat 70
dead lift 80

God damn I hate hack squats so much, can't wait to switch to the real thing.

I can't believe you're supposed to increase weight every *workout* not every week. That's crazy tough, I need to start taking smaller steps up in weight.

[skunkworks]

cbloom,

Thankfully when you start up on Rippetoe's regimen, you should start real low. He suggests pushing the big big lifts (squat, deadlift) by 10 lbs each week. The lifts that involve fewer, smaller muscle groups will progress much slower. He recommends 5 lbs. jumps for benching, and I think even smaller jumps (fractional weights like 1.25 lb.) for overhead pressing. Don't remember off the top of my head what he recommends for the other lifts.

It's rough but it's meant to get you up to speed as quick as possible by taking advantage of "beginner gains". Since you're dealing with the shoulder though, I would be super conservative since the likelihood of injury is higher, plus the fact that injuring that shoulder again would force you to shut down everything.

[cbloom]

Ok, I have a problem/question :

I should do my Rippetoe B today but I was up real late drinking last night and am still tired and hung over. What's better - should I go in and just do my best and have probably a poor workout, or should I just take the day off and do it tomorrow?

[skunkworks]

Take a day off. From a programming perspective, as long as you still get 3 workouts done in the week, pushing the workout one day later won't matter. However, going in and having a crappy workout where you can't exert maximum strength will definitely have an effect on the next workout.

[Wu36]

cbloom, zercher squats might be a decent alternative to the hacks (i've never had shoulder problems so this could be terrible advice, but its worth a try). i googled them and found this illustration, not great but it gets the point across.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/zerchersquat.htm

I'm interested to see how all you guys do on this program, never heard anything about it before.

[CharlieDontSurf]

What is harder on your knee's hams...hack squats or barbel/smith machine squats? I think I'm gonna try this plan out in a couple of weeks at my new gym but my legs are really bad in terms of flexability etc. My knees are a bit achy and ive tried just testing them out by doing body weight squats and based on how tight my muscles/knee feel just doing those...the thought of doing weighted squats kinda freaks me out.

[Wu36]

charlie, check out this video i posted in another thread. this is the only way ive been able to instantly teach proper squat form.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744
i'm inflexible as [censored] and can still squat ATF.

as for your question, hack squats are rough on my knees personally, and i can do every other variation without trouble. hopefully someone else can chime in.

[cbloom]

skunk, thanks, so glad I took the day off yesterday, felt strong today and kicked it out :

Rippetoe B :
Hack Squat 75 (x2+bar)
Pendlay Row 32.5 (x2+bar)
Dumbell Bench 55

(I can't do the military presses I should be doing third here so I'm still experimenting with what to fill in, tried dumbell benches today)

One question I have : on the squat & the bench today, the first two sets I did a clean 5 reps, then the third set I crapped out around 3 reps. Should I go ahead and bump up the weight next time, or do the same weight again until I can get a full clean 3x5 ?

As another experiment I tried doing a warmup set of hack squats with a mixed grip (one hand forward one hand backward) and it was way easier - if I do normal grip I really struggle to hold it. Dunno how I feel about that. Hacks are so f**king hard to do right because the grip is hard, keeping your shoulders back is really hard, and if you don't use perfect form you ram the bar into the back of your leg on the way up and get stuck there.

[bluef0x]

Doesn't Rippetoe say to drop 15 lbs when you fail to finish a set?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't Rippetoe say to drop 15 lbs when you fail to finish a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I know of. I think that's what you're supposed to do when you plateau and can't increase the weight - you drop way down and then start the steady progression back up again. This is the section on stalling :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263322&postcount=23
Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official Rippetoe-Starting Strength FAQ

Here's a quote from the FAQ :

[ QUOTE ]

3) If you get the first 2 sets of 5 with proper technique, but you only get 4 reps on the 3rd, then determine if it was a "recovery deficit" (4 hours sleep last night/skipped meals, etc) or a "technique deficit" (body wasn't tight during presses, leaned forward too much in squat, etc). If the strength or technique deficit was an anomaly and/or is easily correctable, then you can probably add the normal amount of weight as described above. If the weight just felt dog heavy, then add only a bit more, or even keep the weight the same for the next workout. Better to get your 5/5/5 next workout then get a 5/5/3 or a 5/4/4 with a heavier weight.

4) If you get at least 12 or 13 of the reps total (i.e. 5/4/4 or 5/4/3 or 4/4/4) then keep the weight the same for the next workout.


[/ QUOTE ]

One thing that might be the problem is I should rest even longer between sets to make sure I'm fully recovered.

So from the FAQ it sounds like I should probably keep the weight the same and make sure I get a clean 3x5 next time. I think with the squat what I'll do is go up by 2.5 instead of the normal 5 on each side.

[skunkworks]

cbloom,

When you fail to complete a full 3x5, there's a bit of decision-making required as to whether you should reset the weights (drop weights by 10-35 lbs.), use the same weight, or just keep pushing forward. Thankfully, kethnaab on the bb.com forums addressed this in great detail here (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263322&postcount=23).

Basically: If you drop the last rep of your third set, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you end up doing 5/4/4 with some struggling, I'd keep the weight the same or do a tiny weight jump. If it doesn't get better in the next few workouts or even gets worse, your muscles need a bit of a break so go ahead and reset. If you put up a stinker like 5/3/3, you'll have to make a decision whether it was just a bad workout (poor pre-workout nutrition, hung over, not focused) or whether you're in over your head. If it might be an aberration, try again next workout. If it still feels like [censored] on the next workout, drop the weight down.

Edit: Also, if I drop a rep or two on a set, I'll take an extra long time before I hit the next set -- somewhere between 3-4 minutes.

Brag - set a PR by squatting 215 yesterday.
Beat - It was 5/4/4 and I ended up having to drop the bar on the second set and crawl out from the power rack.
Variance - Indian guys next to me using the Smith machine to do 1/8 squats with 3 plates. Roar.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't Rippetoe say to drop 15 lbs when you fail to finish a set?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. He got stuck, so he should keep the weight the same and bang out 3x5 next time.

Do not increase the weight, and consider getting some microplates.

EDIT: didn't see skunks post, his advice is more detailed.

[cbloom]

Decided to keep the weight the same for the hacks and make sure I do a full clean 3x5 , it felt pretty easy.

Rippetoe A today
hack squat 75
bench 50
dead lift 85

I made sure to get a full 3 minute rest between sets today and it made everything feel a lot easier. I'm gonna start taking a minute timer to the gym.

That's the most I've ever dead lifted (85x2+bar = 215); it totally kicked my ass, I felt faint after, it was cool. I'm sure I could've done more back when I was in shape but I never tried to do heavy deadlifts before.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
charlie, check out this video i posted in another thread. this is the only way ive been able to instantly teach proper squat form.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744
i'm inflexible as [censored] and can still squat ATF.


[/ QUOTE ]

I finally watched this whole thing. Excellent video for people wanting to learn squat technique. You only need to watch the first 25 minutes or so, he goes into a bunch of olympic lift stuff after that.

Lots of good stuff at Dan's site too:

http://www.danjohn.org/gramp.html
The Coach - Dan John - Lifiting and Throwing

[cbloom]

Rippetoe B :
Hack Squat 80 (x2+bar)
Pendlay Row 35 (x2+bar)
Shrugs + Curls + I don't know WTF to do instead of militaries

My hacks failed on grip so I finished up the hack sets with a mixed grip, which is sort of cheating I guess. To compensate I did grip bombing at the end since I can't do the militaries anyway.

The steady progress on this program is so awesome, I'm loving it.

[cbloom]

Rippetoe A today
hack squat 82.5 (x2+bar)
bench 52.5 (x2+bar)
dead lift 90 (x2+bar)


I scraped the crap out of my legs and ankles dead lifting today by running the rough bar along my legs on the way up & down. Guess I'm gonna have to wear jeans to dead lift !? Meh

People in the gym keep asking me about the hacks cuz they've never seen anyone else do 'em.

[CharlieDontSurf]

hack squat is a mchine right?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
hack squat is a mchine right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, see earlier in thread.

[cbloom]

Rippetoe B :
Hack Squat 85 (x2+bar)
Pendlay Row 37.5 (x2+bar)
Shrugs + Curls + I don't know WTF to do instead of militaries

Random dude came up to me in the gym today to tell me about George Hackenshmidt, inventor of the hack squat. Sorry random dude, you seem nice and all, but I'm not gay.

[CharlieDontSurf]

How does one figure out where to start in terms of the Rippletoe program?

In terms of wieghts used per exercise. I've never even done pulley rows, deadlifts, squats since like high school.
I've done incline bench press but not flat bench press.

Should i just start really light since im a total newb and will have to raise my weight every workout? Start with just the bar?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
How does one figure out where to start in terms of the Rippletoe program?


[/ QUOTE ]

The program recommends going in and spending one day at the gym figuring out your starting weight. If you read all the links above you'll find some stuff but I'll write a quick version :

Your first day you just go in and practice each exercise and try to figure out your starting way. For each exercise, first of all practice your form with just the bar. If you can't do it with proper form with just the bar, then stop immediately and work on that. If you can do it with proper form and it feels easy, add weight. You want to add weight in small increments, 5-10 lbs at a time, try doing 5 reps again and check your form, add more weight until it's not really easy any more. The most important thing here is to keep proper form and don't add too much weight. Don't go in with any preconceived ideas of how much weight you should be doing, and don't try to add weight until you "feel it". If you don't add enough weight that's no big deal, err on the side of lower weights. Your goal is to find the highest weight where you can do 5 reps with perfect form and it's not totally easy. Now don't actually do your working sets, just record the weight and start next time.

[ QUOTE ]

In terms of wieghts used per exercise. I've never even done pulley rows, deadlifts, squats since like high school.
I've done incline bench press but not flat bench press.

Should i just start really light since im a total newb and will have to raise my weight every workout? Start with just the bar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you've never done a lot them, the most important thing is getting the form right. You should try to get someone to help you, look at pictures, read a lot. I would definitely do it with just the bar at first and work on form. You might want to work on some exercises just even without the bar at first to practice form. Don't worry if you start too light - you'll be adding weight 3 times a week.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
Should i just start really light since im a total newb and will have to raise my weight every workout? Start with just the bar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the book (http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805405/).

And the FAQ (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224).

And this post (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752).

And especially How much weight should I use? (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263399&postcount=30).

I'm about to find this out for myself too (book is on the way), but there is no hard and fast way to know what you're going to be able to lift the first time, how could there be? Since you're supposed to start with the empty bar and then some lighter weights to warm up, I guess for the first time you just keep adding and doing warm up sets until you think you've got enough on the bar to do the work sets, and hopefully you didn't go too high. Better to be too low and increase more rapidly next workout if it's too easy, as per the FAQ.

[skunkworks]

To the Rippetoe starters -- You'll be frightened by how fast your working set weights balloon upward, and at a certain point you'll sigh longingly for the days when you could work with light weights but still get incredible strength gains. It's also really important to nail form down early before it gets heavy -- I ended up wasting a month and had to reset my squat weight all the way down when I realized my form sucked.

cbloom, how far off do you think your shoulder rehab is from allowing you to back squat?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

cbloom, how far off do you think your shoulder rehab is from allowing you to back squat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, I tried it last time I was at the gym and I could get my hands on the bar but it hurt like a million burning needles inside my shoulder so I got out of there quick. My shoulder rehab seems to have stalled out where I have 90% range of motion now but I'm not improving /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'm gonna drop the hacks and switch to front squats soon because it seems closer to the real thing. I figure I should stick with the hacks a few more workouts.

[cbloom]

Rippetoe A today
hack squat 87.5 (3,5,5)
bench 55 (5,4,4)
dead lift 95 (4)


Ugh, crappy day. The hacks almost made me puke, even though I did 2.5 pounds less last time pretty easily.

Dead lift skinned my shin again. The bar runs into the middle of my shin on the way up and then as I pull through the lift it just rips the skin off cuz the bar is like a cheese grater.

Question :
When you guys do the negative on the dead lift do you just drop it all the way and step out of the way then re-address the bar, or do you sort of drop it with control? (sometimes I hit my knees on the way down if I lower it with semi-control).

I also feel like I was too flat-backed in the dead lift, I try to keep my back upright but when I start to struggle my legs go up and my back arches, bad bad bad. I might have to drop back down to low weight and work on form again.

[CharlieDontSurf]

so cbloom yr deadlifitng 95+95+45(bar) right?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
so cbloom yr deadlifitng 95+95+45(bar) right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah (235). It's not really that much (my goal is 2x bodyweight, or about 400) but I'm not used to deadlifting a lot and not comfortable keeping good form and all that.

ps. I started doing Rippetoe with 45 on each side (45*2+45 = 135), just add 5 each time, only 10 workouts later (about a month) I'm at 95 (=235). Crazy.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
Dead lift skinned my shin again. The bar runs into the middle of my shin on the way up and then as I pull through the lift it just rips the skin off cuz the bar is like a cheese grater.

[/ QUOTE ]

How wide is your stance? Unless you have extremely wide hips your shins should be within the knurling which will help. What grip do you use? If it is both overhand try alternating grip as it will reduce the pull toward you and against your legs. Remember to alternate which hand you have overhand/underhand though. As a last resort just wear long socks or tape your shins.

[ QUOTE ]
When you guys do the negative on the dead lift do you just drop it all the way and step out of the way then re-address the bar, or do you sort of drop it with control?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bar should come down under control for most reps. This doesn't mean extremely slow but if you hang on the whole way down it shouldn't be a huge jarring sensation when the weights hit the floor.

[ QUOTE ]
I also feel like I was too flat-backed in the dead lift, I try to keep my back upright but when I start to struggle my legs go up and my back arches, bad bad bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you holding your breath throughout the lift? This can help maintain core stability. In all honesty though, if you feel like your lower back especially is beggining to or is losing its arch just let go of the weight immediately. Struggling through a lift with an arched lower back is the cause of almost all deadlift injuries.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
Rippetoe A today
hack squat 87.5 (3,5,5)
bench 55 (5,4,4)
dead lift 95 (4)


Ugh, crappy day. The hacks almost made me puke, even though I did 2.5 pounds less last time pretty easily.

Dead lift skinned my shin again. The bar runs into the middle of my shin on the way up and then as I pull through the lift it just rips the skin off cuz the bar is like a cheese grater.

Question :
When you guys do the negative on the dead lift do you just drop it all the way and step out of the way then re-address the bar, or do you sort of drop it with control? (sometimes I hit my knees on the way down if I lower it with semi-control).

I also feel like I was too flat-backed in the dead lift, I try to keep my back upright but when I start to struggle my legs go up and my back arches, bad bad bad. I might have to drop back down to low weight and work on form again.

[/ QUOTE ]
I set the bar down gently. It's pretty hard, I was having a little trouble keeping my back straight/arched about 20 lbs ago, but not much anymore.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I also feel like I was too flat-backed in the dead lift, I try to keep my back upright but when I start to struggle my legs go up and my back arches, bad bad bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you holding your breath throughout the lift? This can help maintain core stability. In all honesty though, if you feel like your lower back especially is beggining to or is losing its arch just let go of the weight immediately. Struggling through a lift with an arched lower back is the cause of almost all deadlift injuries.

[/ QUOTE ]
When you guys say arched, you really mean rounded, right?

Arched is the natural lumbar curvature, rounded is what you would do when you touch your toes. I just want to make sure a little natural back ARCH is ok, but any rounding is bad. AMIRITE?

[SmileyEH]

Yeah sorry I misstyped. Arched back = good, flat back = not good, rounded back = injury time.

[Wu36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dead lift skinned my shin again. The bar runs into the middle of my shin on the way up and then as I pull through the lift it just rips the skin off cuz the bar is like a cheese grater.

[/ QUOTE ]


How wide is your stance? Unless you have extremely wide hips your shins should be within the knurling which will help. What grip do you use? If it is both overhand try alternating grip as it will reduce the pull toward you and against your legs. Remember to alternate which hand you have overhand/underhand though. As a last resort just wear long socks or tape your shins.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is good advice. Also, if you're getting scraped up really bad you might be starting the pull too early (ie not enough leg drive). I explained that really poorly, there are a couple good videos I could link to but youtube seems to be down at the moment.

Yeah, this could be easily misinterpreted, just ignore me til i post a video.
edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71denvCLxP0&mode=related&search=
iirc, this video touches on it briefly. sorry, don't remember where exactly.

[CharlieDontSurf]

arched is the equiv of u stnading up at attention and giving say a military salute correct.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
arched is the equiv of u stnading up at attention and giving say a military salute correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, other key is try and pull your shoulder blades together, check out some videos of o-lifters on youtube. their backs are always arched.

[Wu36]

Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.

Charlie, heres a google image of a box squat. That's an arched back.
http://www.wannabebig.com/images/chipboxsquat.jpg

rounded back
http://www.fitstep.com/Library/Exercises/back-exercises/bent-over-barbell-rows/bent-over-barbell-row-hunched-over.jpg

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

How wide is your stance? Unless you have extremely wide hips your shins should be within the knurling which will help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I've been using roughly my squat stance but maybe it should be narrower.

[ QUOTE ]

Are you holding your breath throughout the lift? This can help maintain core stability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, I'd always heard holding your breath is bad and you should be exhaling, no ?

So I read through the description of how to deadlift again and I think I have my starting position wrong. I'm starting sort of how you would be in the bottom of a squat, which is with the legs way bent, my back trying to be vertical, and my knees well in front of the bar. Looking at Rippetoe's diagrams, the knees are behind the bar even at the bottom of the deadlift, and the shins are roughly vertical throughout the whole lift (my shins are way bent forward at the start of the lift which is why I'm hitting them).

Next time I hit the gym I'll practice it with no weight and try to fix my form.

For the record this is Rippetoe's technical article on deadlift form :

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/51-2006_AnalysisofDeadlift.pdf
51-2006_AnalysisofDeadlift.pdf (application/pdf Object)

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

yup, other key is try and pull your shoulder blades together, check out some videos of o-lifters on youtube. their backs are always arched.

[/ QUOTE ]

CDS - watch the Dan John video posted earlier in this thread, it's long but it's really good. He says to pinch the shoulder blades and "make the chest big" like you're posing on the beach. Thinking that really helps my squat form.

[anklebreaker]

I prefer stiff-legged deadlifts. That isn't very helpful to the discussion; just thought I'd throw it out there.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I've been using roughly my squat stance but maybe it should be narrower.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost certainly.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.


[/ QUOTE ]

Word up. Part 1 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt423i1w6vs
YouTube - Tommy Kono lecture/ instruction on Olympic Lifting Part 1

it's all about the deadlift, very good, thanks guys.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah sorry I misstyped. Arched back = good, flat back = not good, rounded back = injury time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is flat not good? I thought it was a safe position for the vertebrae.

Also, occasionally some dudes will be doing round backed stiffish-leg deadlifts, are those safe? Do you just have to start light to let your body adjust? I'm a little confused on this issue, I've seen arguments for and against round backed dl's.

[anklebreaker]

Dave Draper:
[ QUOTE ]

What is meant by a flat, straight or arched back is this: you are maintaining or slightly accentuating your normal lumbar curve. This means the back is slightly concave when view from the side.

Hands are just shoulder width apart on the bar, with a pronated (knuckles up) grip.

Inhale and lift the chest. Now, while looking forward, begin to pivot from the hips (so as to maintain the normal lumbar curve) and bend forward. Quite naturally, your hips will want to move slightly back (to the rear) as you do this. Don't fight this movement. You should feel a tension in the erectors and especially the glutes and hamstrings throughout the movement.

While you are doing this, the legs are slightly bent and held rigidly in that slightly bent position. This movement should be more accurately called a rigid legged-deadlift, rather than a stiff-legged deadlift, since stiff connotes "straight" to most people and it is emphatically NOT a straight-legged position.

The movement that you are trying to emulate is the movement of one of those "drinking bird" toys...get the picture?

Descend only as far as you can go before you begin to round the back (losing the lumbar curve) or you increase the knee bend. It is not necessary to touch the floor, nor is it recommended, since you tend to relax your form when you contact the floor. Exhale slowly about half way up on the return trip.

During the entire movement, keep your eyes forward. Let your head follow the spine throughout the movement, neither looking up or down. Looking down has a tendency to encourage rounding the back and should be avoided.

Some "authorities" recommend standing on a bench and doing this movement, so that you can drop below the level of the feet. This is bad advice. First off, balance is difficult in this position. Second, unless unusually supple, most people can't stretch that far without rounding the lower back.

[/ QUOTE ]

[skunkworks]

It did take me a while to realize that deadlift is not just like a squat in reverse -- for one, the hips start a touch higher than in an ATG squat. I would definitely revert back to 135 lbs (45 on each side) and work on form. (It's kind of tricky working on deadlift form with the bar only. The other thing you could do is use 25s on each side and rest them on a platform of plates so that the bar is about as level as they would be if 45s were on them. Hope that makes sense.)

[cbloom]

Rippetoe - RESET today

I decided to just reset on some of my exercises to fix my form and see if I could get off the hack squat.

Deadlift - 45
Front Squat - 10

I did deadlifts with just a 45 on each side. I'm going to start there for the reset. I think my form was pretty good, the legs are much straighter and the pull is more from the back. It's really hard for me to bend down and grab the weight and have a good arched back, it stretches the hamstrings like crazy. I think that's the correct form. I was thinking of what Dan John says - you push the hips back and keep the back arched and bending over just happens, you don't try to bend over, you're just pushing your hips back.

Front Squat feels really bad with my shoulder, I still can't get my elbows high enough to keep the upper arm horizontal, so I might bail on that but we'll see, I'm gonna try to do it.

After doing those I decided to just bail on doing a full routine and spent the time stretching and working on form and checking my form out in the mirror a lot.

I might try to take some video so you guys can check my form out. There's nobody at my gym here who I trust at all, there are some huge guys but they're total gym rat meat-heads.

[skunkworks]

cbloom, I've also been meaning to take some videos using my cell phone just to double-check my form. I've got a feeling that the hamstring stretch you're describing might be because you're starting with your hips too high. This would also explain the feeling that you're bending over the bar.

[cbloom]

I'm still ramping back up on my reset, trying to make sure my form is right.

Deadlift 70
Front Squat 20
Pendlay Row 20
Bench 55

(x2 +bar)

I didn't reset the Bench and now I'm kind of stuck on that too, I keep doing 55 for 5-4-4 sets, so I guess I have to jump down and try to reset that too. It all feels really hard right now.

[Thremp]

cbloom,

Can you put those lifts in std form. Like add them up for us and the bar. You are using kilos or pounds or... Its just very hard to follow your log.

[cbloom]

4/12 Rippetoe A

Front Squat 25 = 95x3x5
Bench 45 = 135x3x5
Deadlift 75 = 195x1x5

I was feeling weak so I went ahead and reset my bench down too since I've been stalled at 55 for a while now. Squat and DL are coming back up from the reset a week ago.

I've had several [censored] workouts in a row recently cuz I'm always hung over. I need to [censored] quit drinking.

In other happier news - I was able to throw a football yesterday!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Granted, they were very girly throws, I still can't really get my arm all the way up, but that's a nice step.

[Thremp]

Thanks.

[CharlieDontSurf]

thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5


[/ QUOTE ]

Standard form is (weight)x(sets)x(reps) ; don't do weird notation like me.

[ QUOTE ]

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

[/ QUOTE ]

Normal quad stretch should do that, the one where you grab your foot and pull it to your butt. You should probably read on the web about stretching.

BTW you should NOT really do hard stretching before lifting, you should do some light stretching and warm up the muscles. You can do hard stretching at a totally different time, on off days or at night or something. Also "hard" not = straining, you should never strain or bounce when stretching, you just want to gently pull your stretch.

[Huh?]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.

Charlie, heres a google image of a box squat. That's an arched back.
http://www.wannabebig.com/images/chipboxsquat.jpg

rounded back
http://www.fitstep.com/Library/Exercises/back-exercises/bent-over-barbell-rows/bent-over-barbell-row-hunched-over.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

i hav about that much lean in my squat..but was worried it was too much.

In the DJ video someone posted he says raise your chin up, puff out yr chest and then push out yr ass like yr trying to touch a wall a foot or two behind u.

i also went waaay lower that the dude with the box..though maybe its just cuz the box is there. Is my ass actually supposed to touch cuz it basically was.

[Thremp]

Second photo is whack. Hips rise and he leans over to compensate... Def not something you wanna do with the bar unloaded. Also why West Side has guys doing really heavy good mornings.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

[/ QUOTE ]
Search my posts in this forum. I give a link to a t-nation article on hardcore stretching.

EDIT: Hamstring flexibility is important for ass to grass squatting. If you're tight, it will make your back round at the bottom, it just pulls your butt under you without you even knowing it.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

[/ QUOTE ]
Search my posts in this forum. I give a link to a t-nation article on hardcore stretching.

EDIT: Hamstring flexibility is important for ass to grass squatting. If you're tight, it will make your back round at the bottom, it just pulls your butt under you without you even knowing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something I recently discovered. It really sucks /images/graemlins/frown.gif. Women really have it made for weight training - naturally good flexibility means their form comes along so much quicker.

[cbloom]

4/15 Rippetoe B

Front Squat 25 = 95x3x5
Pendlay Row 25 = 95x3x5
Pullups 9,5,4

Doh, should've done 30's a side on the squat but read my log wrong. Squat felt bad anyway, hammies were really tight and it was making me round my back bad, which makes the weight fall off the front in the front squat which is a big disaster.

[cbloom]

4/18 Rippetoe A

Front Squat 30 = 105x3x5
Bench 47.5 = 140x3x5
DeadLift 80 = 205x1x5

Felt strong today. Took a sudafed in the morning and it had me bouncing off the walls, the hardest thing was making myself take a full rest.

[cbloom]

4/20 Rippetoe B

Front Squat 35 = 115x3x5
Pendlay Row 30 = 105x3x5
Pullups 5,5

Gonna do 32.5 a side on the row next time. Booze and women are holding me back so much...

[nation]

Holy crap. I've been putting off lifting mostly because I don't know how to lift so I've been just trying to get exercise like walking on the golf course. I was hoping to lift when I got back to vegas because I have a friend who knows his way around the gym.

Starting Strength seems like the perfect book for me to get so I can start lifting without someone having to babysit me. In the past I would work out with someone who knew all the exercises and I just did what they did. I guess this is a must buy for me.

So basically, this book teaches beginners who want to make strength gains how to lift correctly and efficiently?

Edit: I can't believe I passed over this thread!

[edfurlong]

I just picked it up because of this forum. I haven't really dug into it that much, but it goes into great detail on the exercises with tons of pictures.

[nation]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

this thread had this quote in the OP...

"Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. (http://www.startingstrength.com.) It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains."

That part made me look twice as I'm still 215lbs with a goal of 160-170. I'm assuming he's referring to people who are eating tons in order to get big?

Correct me if my logic is off: People who have a big caloric surplus get huge, but I could technically maintain a 500 caloric deficit and continue to lose weight/body fat while helping to maintain lbm and make strength gains at the same time. Am I right?

[anklebreaker]

Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

[nation]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I almost didn't even put that in. I should have put, "slow down lbm loss".

[nation]

also, am i getting a simple guide for coaching beginners, or barbell basics?

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
also, am i getting a simple guide for coaching beginners, or barbell basics?

[/ QUOTE ]

Barbell basics is not out yet, though I heard on BB.com it was just completed.

[Thremp]

Its a lie.


Don't listen to some of the hyperbole [censored] many authors put out. CP said he put 30+ lbs in 4 months on a national level bodybuilder. I'd bet souls he's a liar.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I almost didn't even put that in. I should have put, "slow down lbm loss".

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe us newbies can lose weight and gain STRENGTH at the same time.

[cbloom]

If you're carrying some fat you can *definitely* lose fat and gain muscle. You might not actually lose any weight doing that, though.

From my own history I really feel like the #1 thing is to get strong, and then losing weight once you're strong is so much easier.

[cbloom]

A day in a few hours I'm trying to get psyched up. This is my new inspiration for the front squat :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4&mode=related&search=

(Dabaya 200kg)

[cbloom]

4/22 Rippetoe A

Front Squat 40 = 125x3x5
Bench 50 = 145x3x5
DeadLift 85 = 215x1x5

Hells yeah, lower weights but back on track, form feels good.

Hey maybe you guys can tell me something about this :

Flat bench always fails for me in a strange way. Like, it feels really light, my muscles feel like they could do a lot more, but my arms just start shaking and then on the last rep I just can't go any more. It doesn't feel like any other exercise to me, I dunno if somehow I'm failing in my CNS or my ATP or something, or maybe it's just all in my head.

[cbloom]

Well son of a bitch it's 6 months later and I haven't made much progress. For one thing I got really sick for a while, then partied like crazy for a while, then did a bunch of long bike riding which was really negative for my strength/weight gaining.

I thought I'd revive the log to write what I'm doing now. I'm restarting the Rippetoe, but with some modified routines to me more friendly to my shoulder. I think I was hurting it too much back then. I'm also trying to eat a lot more. I think a lot of why I'm not adding muscle faster is I'm not eating enough and not sleeping enough, so I'm trying to focus more on having 6 meals with lots of protein which is really really tough.

For the record, I'm 6'1" and weigh about 180 right now, dunno my BF% but it's very low. My goals are to get stronger cuz I'm hella weak right now and to rehab my shoulder and develop a lot of strength in shoulder girdle to prevent future injuries. I'd love to be able to play rugby again in 2008. First I need to be able to do ONE overhead squat.

So, my new modified Rippetoe looks like this :

A:
Front Squat
Incline dumbell bench
Chinups
Face pulls

B:
Deadlift (3x5 not 1x5)
Military press (dumbbell, neutral grip)
Seated cable row

+finish with a 1x100 and some hard ab exercise
+abs later in the day some days
+HIIT sprinting later on same days


Some of the extra shoulder work I do :

warm up the shoulder each day with the "thrower's ten"
serious stretching at least 3 times a week, focusing on hams, hips, chest & shoulder - trying to eliminate kyphosis and promote scapular retraction
myofacial release with a foam roller
scap retraction and scap circles
pushups "with a plus" and scap pushups
in-place lift ups on chair ("latissimus dorsi strengthening")
neutral plane lateral raises


Some other things I like but haven't found a place for in my routine :
Hindo pushups
Turkish getups
Power shrugs

[cbloom]

Sample day's diet :

breakfast:
bowl of oatmeal
3 eggs

snack:
apple
6 oz ham

lunch/postworkout:
protein shake
lunchmeat sandwich
bowl of spinach

snack:
turkey hotdog
peanuts

dinner:
8 oz steak
asparagus
potato
salad
3 beers


I think I'm probably still not getting enough protein and maybe not even enough calories. I'm not putting on any fat really even though I feel like I'm eating a ton. I guess I need to do the numbers, and I should really cut the beers but I don't want to.

I'm not trying to do any cardio at this point for exercise purposes, but I still bike and hike and stuff a lot because that's what I like to do for fun, so maybe I'm burning too many calories on that junk.

[cbloom]

Well I went and did the numbers on my diet. I don't know if there's any decent way to post a table on 2+2, this is formatting like sh*t, but here it is :

cal fat carb prot
breakfast:
bowl of oatmeal 150 2 25 6
3 eggs 221 15 1 19
butter 100 11 0 0

snack:
apple 72 0 19 0
6 oz ham 300 15 0 38

lunch/postworkout:
protein shake 130 2 11 16
lunchmeat sandwich 400 8 41 35
bowl of spinach 50 3 3 3

snack:
orange 70 0 17 1
turkey hotdog 114 6 1 14
peanuts 166 14 6 7

dinner:
8 oz steak 414 14 0 66
asparagus 40 0 7 4
potato 128 0 29 3
salad 33 0 7 2
3 beers 450 0 38 5
butter 100 11 0 0
olive oil 120 14 0 0

total 3058 115 205 219


Anyway the totals are:

calories : 3058
fat : 115
carb : 205
protein : 219


That's okay but it's actually lower calorie than I thought; it feels like I'm constantly eating. My goal is more like 3500 calories. Probably the best thing would be to just add some more protein shakes throughout the day. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[thirddan]

cbloom...maybe a snack right before bed? some protein/cottage cheese/flax/peanut butter would get you where you want to be?

[cbloom]

So I ran my numbers on what I ate yesterday :

cal : 3127
fat : 114
carb: 252
prot: 251

Really similar to last time. BTW it gets way easier to do this each time because you get all the common foods you eat in an excel sheet and you can just copy & paste the lines rather than looking them up.

I guess I'm still not eating enough total, and I really want to get my protein more spread out throughout the day. Right now I'm eating like 100g around dinner and then not enough the rest of the day. I've heard the body does best with protein doses around 25g, so to get 250g that means 10 doses.

I felt like I ate a ton yesterday, it's just psychologically so hard for me to go over 3000 calories. All those years of trying to stay lean have got me in the habit of hating that really stuffed full feeling.

In better news I did the first weighted pullups in my life yesterday, that felt good.

[theblackkeys]

Eat a bigger steak, add an extra egg for breakfast, eat more nuts. I think those would be the least filling ways to add calories (cuz of the fat).

EDIT: Another thought, since you want to space out the protein, is to save some steak from the night before, slice it up and eat it with your eggs. You can mop the sunny side yolk if that's how you eat eggs. So yummy.

[cbloom]

Such a [censored] workout today. I think I'm going to bail on strength workouts again.

All the big moves are so hard for me to do safely and I feel like I fail in my joints way before I can really work the muscles.

Tried to do front squats today and couldn't find an arm position that felt okay for my shoulder so I bailed and just did some lunges which felt okay.

Tried to do dumbbell flat bench which is an okay move for me, but to strain the muscles I have do weights that I can't get into the starting position safely. (barbell flat bench is forbidden)

Tried to do deadlifts and got a shooting pain in my back going down my hip (I have pinched disks from old injuries).

On the plus side I found a new better physical therapist and my shoulder is getting a lot better. I was able to do an overhead squat today with a broomstick which I wasn't even close to earlier. Also I was able to at least get into a normal barbell squat starting posture but that's still forbidden to me so I didn't actually do any.


I think I'm gonna take a few months and just do high rep bodyweight stuff and swimming for GPP and muscle endurance and all that kind of nonsense.

I was so frustrated, some jackass at the gym started racking my weights while I was resting between sets and I almost just clocked him

/images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[theblackkeys]

that sucks man. good luck with your injury. it's kinda hard to function without a shoulder, eh?

Certain people at the gym are effing annoying. One guy started checking out his complexion in the mirror, then popped a zit! [censored] scumbag.

anyways, I actually saw two people squatting correctly at the gym this week, gives me hope for mankind. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[cbloom]

Well last few days have been really good doing low weight stuff.

Swimming a few times
Lots of lunges and squats with no weight
OHS with broomstick
Regular squat with just a bar
Pullups and pushups
Hypers & reverse hypers
Turkish getups with 25 lbs
+1 hour a day of stretching & shoulder rehab exercises /images/graemlins/frown.gif

All felt really good. Started doing this new ab thing too - I can't find a name for it, but you do a lying down straight leg lift with a medicine ball between your feet, at the top you pass the ball to your hands and lower your legs and arms to lieing down, then do another leg lift and grab the ball with your feet. Pretty fun.

I wanted to do some kind of hard work today before I gorge tomorrow so I did

Pullups + 15 lbs, 8,7,5
Dumbell military press 30 lbs 8,7,7 (going light for reps)
Deadlift 135x5,160x5,185x5

DL felt really draining but good. It blows I'm not making any progress increasing weights, but I am feeling a lot healthier.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
Well last few days have been really good doing low weight stuff.

Swimming a few times
Lots of lunges and squats with no weight
OHS with broomstick
Regular squat with just a bar
Pullups and pushups
Hypers & reverse hypers
Turkish getups with 25 lbs
+1 hour a day of stretching & shoulder rehab exercises /images/graemlins/frown.gif

All felt really good. Started doing this new ab thing too - I can't find a name for it, but you do a lying down straight leg lift with a medicine ball between your feet, at the top you pass the ball to your hands and lower your legs and arms to lieing down, then do another leg lift and grab the ball with your feet. Pretty fun.

I wanted to do some kind of hard work today before I gorge tomorrow so I did

Pullups + 15 lbs, 8,7,5
Dumbell military press 30 lbs 8,7,7 (going light for reps)
Deadlift 135x5,160x5,185x5

DL felt really draining but good. It blows I'm not making any progress increasing weights, but I am feeling a lot healthier.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been itching to get a high rep week or two in, just to give myself a break from heavy [censored], and to also be able to practice movements more. I feel like since I'm so injury prone it would be a good chance to let my connective tissue catch up to my muscles.

Also, how's your shoulder? What's still wrong with it? If you're able to do OHS and military presses, it would seem like it's pretty healthy.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

I've been itching to get a high rep week or two in, just to give myself a break from heavy [censored], and to also be able to practice movements more. I feel like since I'm so injury prone it would be a good chance to let my connective tissue catch up to my muscles.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it felt really good. Obviously high reps is not the way to go for hypertrophy, but it feels like it's making the joints more used to the motion and flushing blood through the muscles and just making the body more able to do the moves. I think it's worthwhile to take a break and do that once in a while.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, how's your shoulder? What's still wrong with it? If you're able to do OHS and military presses, it would seem like it's pretty healthy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the OHS is a new thing and it's a very exciting milestone for me. I'm only doing dumbbell military presses, which is easier on the shoulder than barbell. I still have scar tissue around the scapula and the glenohumeral joint, as well as atrophy of stabilizer and scapular muscles.

It's easy to detect because there are still just weird little moves that are so so hard for me. One move is rotating my arms up from my sides to overhead - on my left it's a piece of cake, but on my right it's still so so hard, like 5 reps and I'm exhausted.

For a while there I was worried it was never going to get back to 100% function at all, but now I feel like with a few more months of hard work it will be as good as ever, so that's really positive.

[cbloom]

So I made some video formchecks :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDuYwUKCJeo&feature=PlayList&p=7C7C0D89E7D D7A06&index=1

(there are 4 videos, if you just watch one look at the deadlift 165 for me)

It was pretty cool making the videos, I already spotted a lot of things I wasn't really aware of.

BTW this is the first weighted regular squat I've done in over a year, very happy with that.

[EricW]

Hi friend,

You're letting the bar down too slowly on the deadlift.

Also, for the squats, your arm placement is way off. Your hands should be placed just outside the shoulders so you can create a strong "ledge" for the bar by bunching up your trap muscles. Other than that, it seems fine.

On an unrelated note, please change your socks. Those mid length crew socks = very nerdy

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, for the squats, your arm placement is way off. Your hands should be placed just outside the shoulders so you can create a strong "ledge" for the bar by bunching up your trap muscles. Other than that, it seems fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks; yeah, I definitely can't do that right now. Maybe I'll just hold off on the squats a bit longer until my shoulder's better. I got excited that I could even vaguely get in position and want to get on the wagon.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, for the squats, your arm placement is way off. Your hands should be placed just outside the shoulders so you can create a strong "ledge" for the bar by bunching up your trap muscles. Other than that, it seems fine.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks; yeah, I definitely can't do that right now. Maybe I'll just hold off on the squats a bit longer until my shoulder's better. I got excited that I could even vaguely get in position and want to get on the wagon.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's ok as long as the bar isn't hurting your neck/back, or the arm position is hurting your shoulder. If it all feels good, I would do squats, although nothing too heavy. Whadya think?

[cbloom]

Squat : 125 3x5
feel like I could easily go a lot heavier but I'm taking it slow

Incline dumbbell bench : 65 3x5
felt really hard to get in & out of position safely
might have to stop doing this unless I can get a spot

Deadlift : 185 1x5 , 205 1x3
probably could've finished the 1x5 at 205 but I wussed out and bailed


That all felt pretty good, but WTF I just looked at the clock and I was at the gym almost 2 hours. I think I warmed up for too long and then I must've got low blood sugar and just totally spaced out there for a long time.

Shoulder feels really awkward in the squat position.

I tried going down faster in the DL and dropping it from higher up. Everyone in the gym was looking at me. I really wish I had proper rubber floors and bumper plates.

Starting Strength is so f**king hard.

[cbloom]

Squat : 135 3x5
Pullups + 20 lbs : 7,6,4
Militaries : 45 lbs 1x4 (fail), 40 lbs 3x5

Weighed myself - 188 lbs ! (up from 180 a month ago). Definitely a bit of fat but weight gain is good.

Did some dumb [censored] at the end of the workout cuz I felt strong and had lots of energy; punched the bag barehanded and did some plyo jumps and a lot of hard abs. Dumb, don't do that.

Squat felt strong, but I did something bad on the second set. I think I had the bar too high up and it was kind of on my neck or something. Anyway, I did the set and it felt fine, then as soon as I racked the bar I got a huge splitting headache. I just rested a minute and it went away fortunately. Gotta be careful.

[maniacut]

[ QUOTE ]
Militaries : 45 lbs 1x4 (fail), 40 lbs 3x5

[/ QUOTE ] Are those dumbbells on each side?

Also you could try using a stopwatch (wristwatch/cellphone) to keep your rest periods strict if the clocks in the gym aren't very good.

[cbloom]

Yeah that's dumbbell.