If I was an atheist, and...

[siegfriedandroy]

my life was not going well, and the damage seemed irreparable, wouldn't suicide be the best answer?

It definitely would not be a bad answer, whether your life was great or horrible. Why not avoid all the heartache and tragedy of this world, and simply begin your 'extinction' a bit prematurely? I dont know if I'd have the 'courage' to do it if i were an atheist, but perhaps it would be the best option. Certainly it would not be a bad option. Fortunately Ill never have to worry about this

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
my life was not going well, and the damage seemed irreparable, wouldn't suicide be the best answer?

It definitely would not be a bad answer, whether your life was great or horrible. Why not avoid all the heartache and tragedy of this world, and simply begin your 'extinction' a bit prematurely? I dont know if I'd have the 'courage' to do it if i were an atheist, but perhaps it would be the best option. Certainly it would not be a bad option. Fortunately Ill never have to worry about this

[/ QUOTE ]
it would have to be a very strong 'seem' but I'd commit suicide rather than live a life of negative quality. I don't even rule out the possibility of a god but that makes no difference.

chez

[hmkpoker]

If it's really hopeless, maybe, I dunno. I enjoy living, so suicide is a pretty bad option for me.

[KipBond]

If I were a Christian... and my life wasn't going well... couldn't I just take a lot of sleeping pills, then repent and ask forgiveness, knowing that I'll soon be living in paradise?

The atheist has more motivation to make this life worth living.

[siegfriedandroy]

but is it really better to live an 'enjoyable' life than to not exist at all? even the best of us are down at times- if you dont exist, you will NEVER feel pain

[siegfriedandroy]

to the first part, perhaps. to the second part, no

[ElaineMonster]

I hope you're joking because this idea is ridiculous.

I personally have avoided suicide at my weakest moments because I know it would do irreparable damage to the people who care about me.
If nothing else it would be unfair to whoever found my dead body and had to deal with it. I simply couldn't willingly do that to someone.

I may not have a belief in god, but I have a conscience.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
my life was not going well, and the damage seemed irreparable, wouldn't suicide be the best answer?

It definitely would not be a bad answer, whether your life was great or horrible. Why not avoid all the heartache and tragedy of this world, and simply begin your 'extinction' a bit prematurely? I dont know if I'd have the 'courage' to do it if i were an atheist, but perhaps it would be the best option. Certainly it would not be a bad option. Fortunately Ill never have to worry about this

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, suicide was not a sin until the church had to make it one to curtail the growing numbers of believers who were offing themselves because the church painted such a rosy picture of the afterlife.

[Phil153]

Since when is non life > life? To an athiest life can be miraculous and precious, terribly despairing, or anywhere in between.

An atheist wordview can make the lives of others more important (this is all we have - there is no God to save us or the kids in Africa, no one to ensure justice is done) or less important (there is no God to judge me, no penalty for being selfish, may as well just enjoy myself).

Atheism itself isn't the issue, or the cause of any particular worldview. As with God botherers, it's entirely a question of character. The one thing atheism does give is an uncluttered perspective with which to view to the world and your own place in it.

[hmkpoker]

or happiness

[Leaky Eye]

[ QUOTE ]
but is it really better to live an 'enjoyable' life than to not exist at all? even the best of us are down at times- if you dont exist, you will NEVER feel pain

[/ QUOTE ]

People who believe death is the end should place a higher value on their mortal life than afterlifers.

As for suicide, if humans are the product of evolution then they would have evolved to place some value on their lives. Suicides are mentally ill, and their theism is the least of their worries.

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
my life was not going well, and the damage seemed irreparable, wouldn't suicide be the best answer?

It definitely would not be a bad answer, whether your life was great or horrible. Why not avoid all the heartache and tragedy of this world, and simply begin your 'extinction' a bit prematurely? I dont know if I'd have the 'courage' to do it if i were an atheist, but perhaps it would be the best option. Certainly it would not be a bad option. Fortunately Ill never have to worry about this

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Extinction is a term for a species dying out, your use makes no sense.

2. So god is your only reason to live? That's sad.

3. As an atheist, I personally would choose life, no matter how bad over death, because when we die there is nothing after, and any form of experience of existance is preferable to nonexistance.

4. You seem to view evolusionist in a few contradictory ways, evolution can be life affiriming as well, and suicide is probably the most counter-evolutionary behaviour possible, evolution is about adapting to fit you surroundings, achieveing your potential and passing on your genes.

5. There are many evolutionary reasons why man created god and wrote the bible. A set of moral guidelines that preach peace, love, union between men and women etc. The bible was good for the species, and most organised religion has been.

6. What denomination do you follow? And why that over others?

[Piers]

You paint a reason in favor of some people not being atheists, and give some indication as to why such a hight proportion of humans are theists. You certainly do not give a reason why atheists are incorect.

[siegfriedandroy]

i agree. you do have a conscience. and that is good. but, while i guess it's not inherently inconsistent for an atheist to care about his family, etc., this is definitely no better than not caring. what i mean is, you would not be inconsistent with atheism to care nothing for those around you. with christianity, by contrast, God's greatest is command is love. therefore, not committing suicide out of concern for your family is now a perfect reason, completely consistent with your beliefs

[siegfriedandroy]

1)i think my meaning of 'extinction' is plain by the context. must every term i use be strictly consistent with Webster's, even if my usage is plain to all who read?

2) why is this sad?

3) why is it preferable?

4) but if there is no God, and blind chance dominates, you are under no OBLIGATION to seek the survival of your species. perhaps this is how the blind mechanism works, but it surely doesn't force you to 'affirm life', as you say.

5) not sure what youre getting at here

6) grew up lutheran (that's why i drink a lot of beer). however, i do not presently identify solely with any particular denomination. i have struggled to an extreme degree with many of my particular beliefs for quite a long time

[siegfriedandroy]

i agree with the first few lines. neither would be greater. there is no way to determine which is greater, and the question is probably meaningless. destroying african lives is no better or worse than trying to preserve them

[siegfriedandroy]

do you have anything i can read about this? biblically speaking, im pretty sure suicide is frowned upon (i.e. judas)

[Borodog]

Suicide is mentioned numerous times in the Bible, but nowhere is it condemned.

Here (http://ashbusstop.org/Biblesuicide.html) is a good, though incomplete, summary. It's incomplete in that it neglects the major reason that Aquinas took up the theology of suicide again and sought to strengthen the Church proscription against it, that people were committing suicide because life on Earth was often so hellish and the afterlife was portrayed as so . . . heavenly.

[henrikrh]

1)i think my meaning of 'extinction' is plain by the context. must every term i use be strictly consistent with Webster's, even if my usage is plain to all who read?

When discussing philosophy and science plain terms are preferable, when babbling about god you can be as vague as you like.

2) why is this sad?

It is simply my view, you are so misguided that I pity you, there is no awakening that can withdraw you from your delusion, argument from either side is redundant.

3) why is it preferable?

From an evolutionary point of view, longer life is biological success. That is not the reason I would chose not to commit sucide, just an obvious flaw in your conjecture that an evolutionist might as well hasten his 'extinction'.

4) but if there is no God, and blind chance dominates, you are under no OBLIGATION to seek the survival of your species. perhaps this is how the blind mechanism works, but it surely doesn't force you to 'affirm life', as you say.

There is an obligation, evolution is not blind chance, it is logical development, growth and adaptation. I don't know to argue your point any more than that there, you are simply wrong on this one.

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with the first few lines. neither would be greater. there is no way to determine which is greater, and the question is probably meaningless. destroying african lives is no better or worse than trying to preserve them

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a sickening statement, can't belive how souless christians can be. Life is precious and should always be preserved where possible.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
) grew up lutheran (that's why i drink a lot of beer ). however, i do not presently identify solely with any particular denomination. i have struggled to an extreme degree with many of my particular beliefs for quite a long time


[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, I think you have drank too many beers in your lifetime. It is a fact that it destroys brain cells and from reading most of your posts I think that is obvious. You make such blatantly stupid assertions that I am beginning to wonder if you aren't a shill employed by David to get the post counts up (so he can make more money).

[hmkpoker]

No, that's godBoy

[hashi92]

please dont take this the wrong way. im not trying to bash on you or anything. with a name like siegfriedandroy are you gay.

[Jeff V]

[ QUOTE ]
(there is no God to judge me, no penalty for being selfish, may as well just enjoy myself).


[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh the heart of the matter.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(there is no God to judge me, no penalty for being selfish, may as well just enjoy myself).


[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh the heart of the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you not understand my post? Here it is again:


"An atheist wordview can make the lives of others more important (this is all we have - there is no God to save us or the kids in Africa, no one to ensure justice is done) or less important (there is no God to judge me, no penalty for being selfish, may as well just enjoy myself).

Atheism itself isn't the issue, or the cause of any particular worldview. As with God botherers, it's entirely a question of character. "

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
please dont take this the wrong way. im not trying to bash on you or anything. with a name like siegfriedandroy are you gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recall hashi saying if ten people voted to throw him, he'd never post again, and last I checked the count was at three. Anyone else want to vote him off?

[deleteduser]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(there is no God to judge me, no penalty for being selfish, may as well just enjoy myself).


[/ QUOTE ]

Dont you think this is also what a serial killer would believe

[hmkpoker]

Well, all atheists secretly are serial killers

[hashi92]

the reason that i ask the question is if he is gay how can he be so religous. i have no ill will against gay people.

[KipBond]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
please dont take this the wrong way. im not trying to bash on you or anything. with a name like siegfriedandroy are you gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recall hashi saying if ten people voted to throw him, he'd never post again, and last I checked the count was at three. Anyone else want to vote him off?

[/ QUOTE ]

4. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RxForMoreCowbell]

Did you even read his whole post Jeff, or is it cheapshot hour and nobody told me?

[CallMeIshmael]

Havent read the thread, so someone may have mentioned this before...

but, no, humans that are prone to taking their own lives are selected against. As such, we are made of people who have a fear of taking their own life.

[MidGe]

Should life become unendurable physically, emotionally or even financially, personally I would not hesitate to take my own life. My closests are very well aware of my wishes and intentions. We have discussed it on a number of occasions and still do so once in a while.

In the last 6 months I have been made aware of two relatives (by marriage, so it is not in the blood /images/graemlins/smile.gif - most of my blood relative are christians and would therefore not make that choice), who did go thru euthanasia. In the most moving case the decision had been made the day before and the doctor was due to arrive at 4 PM to facilitate. Interestingly all this man's children (and husbands and wifes of those) and very close family were with him for that day and all knew what was going to take place. From those that directly attended, it was a very strange and difficult day which however had heaps of dignity.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
the damage seemed irreparable

[/ QUOTE ]

If the damage actually was irreparable, then suicide makes sense. If it only seems this way, and the quality of your life will in fact improve, then suicide does not make sense.

[KipBond]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were an atheist, and...

[/ QUOTE ]

FYS. /images/graemlins/wink.gif