NL25: KK flops nut flush draw and hits K on the turn... [Archive]

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SubaruSTiMike

09-23-2006, 03:08 PM

I think I didn't play this TOO well...villain is pretty tight passive I guess, no real reads besides stats over 43 he's 26/3/1. Preflop I think is pretty standard..

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($17.25)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($26)
Button ($29.91)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($2.60) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Hero raises to $3, UTG raises to $5, Hero calls $2.

Flop is pretty good for me, I have nut flush draw so I was thinking checking to let the smaller flushes hit or get value out of TT+, so he raises pretty small so I'm thinking either flush draw, made flush, or an Ace, I think the reraise on the flop is pretty bad, I should've just called, the reraise folds out an Ace, probably a few smaller flushes, and the only thing that calls is probably the made flush, which I'm behind.

Turn: ($12.60) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $19.75 (All-In), Hero calls $8.75 (All-In).

Turn looked like a good card, but maybe it wasn't, it blinded me to what villain could have had. Set = nuts here in NL25, but not in this case. I've picked up a few more outs, and I bet the turn hoping to get more value out of smaller flush draw but I think all I did was haev better hands call (made flush) and weaker hands fold. He pushes and I had to call getting great odds, if I kept the pot smaller maybe I didn't have to pot commit myself.

River: ($51.10) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $51.10

How do I play this hand? From my anaylsis you guys can guess what villain had, am I being too result oriented? After looking at the hand, should I Just 3 bet flop? Or just push? If i'm going to stack off I might as well pushed the flop...

Thanks for the helps.

MrMxyztplk

09-23-2006, 03:53 PM

I would call the flop. Then get it in on the turn.

Thrahl

09-23-2006, 04:14 PM

I lead this flop. Normally b3bai would be decent line to take, but here I just like a call of villains raise. A raise on a monotone flop from a villain this passive usually means he has at least 2 pair, and I doubt you have much if any fold equity. I play it the same on the turn, theres no way your getting away from this hand, if villain has a flush you still have ten outs, if he has a set of Aces you have 9 outs, everything else you crush.

xwillience

09-23-2006, 04:15 PM

preflop: raise to 1.25. standard is 4bb+1bb/limper.

flop: id pot it. in hopes of folding out weak Aces.

Turn: after he 3 bet min raises you on the flop you know yoru behind to a flush. So you dont really want to be getting to aggro unless you improve. I c/c the turn.

EMc

09-23-2006, 04:27 PM

I think that leading the flop is better.

On the turn, given his 3 bet, you are probably behind to a flush so a c/c is good here, and getting it on an improved river.

ImsaKidd

09-23-2006, 04:28 PM

I think you have to bet pot on this flop. Smaller flush draws will still call, and you will get value when they hit. Dont check and let him take a free card. You don't want to C/R this flop IMO because you are OOP with a mediocre made hand but a strong draw. You want to wait to improve before you put in lots of $$.

Shaddux

09-23-2006, 04:35 PM

I see no reason to c/r flop. Just lead.
Turn is good. You have a set and 17 outs if villain has the flush. You wan't your money in the pot.

SubaruSTiMike

09-23-2006, 04:43 PM

Yeah I agree, I should have just led, I usually cbet and all, maybe villain thinks it's another cbet, man what was I thinking, grr, wrong time to c/raise, I probably would've built the pot. I guess I was wondering if I could get away from this hand...anywhere..probably not.

SubaruSTiMike

09-23-2006, 04:46 PM

Oh and another thing, what do you guys think about 4 betting (raising his reraise and folding to further aggression if he pushes the flop?

xwillience

09-23-2006, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and another thing, what do you guys think about 4 betting (raising his reraise and folding to further aggression if he pushes the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think its a bad idea. if he pushes your throwing away a perfectly good hand. also, next time he wont be a position to 4 bet because your going to lead.. Ok?

SubaruSTiMike

09-23-2006, 04:55 PM

Ok, thanks, I'm just trying to get this hand right. So if I lead, and he calls, and K comes, do I play it the same way? Pot and call push, if he raises my bet, do I call and lead again and call push? Assuming my lead is 3/4 and his reraise is standard 3 times my bet? Obviously a non flush card makes it easier to play I can just lead fold to raise.

Thanks for your help xwillience, I really appreciate, and to all those who helped.

matrix

09-23-2006, 07:04 PM

raise more preflop - standard is 4BB +1 per limper.

it's not a huge difference but it makes a BIG difference on later streets - the bigger we can get the pot preflop with a TOP hand like KK the more likely it is we will be playing for stacks by the river.

You gotta gotta gotta lead this flop for ~pot it's super drawy, a lead here might fold out weak aces (very unlikely at this level but some players are scared of monotone flops)

Turn - OK I just wanna get all-in now - we have a set, outs to nut flush outs to a boat I like the way you play the turn. c/c might be better if we are 100% sure villain has a made flush but there is no way I am folding this hand now. You can't possibly try and fin ways to lay this down. If he flopped a flush you were pretty much destined to get stacked here, thems the breaks.

xcrack999

09-24-2006, 12:27 AM

lolosubarustimikeament

Sir Winalot

09-24-2006, 02:27 AM

Raise more pf. I think leading the flop is better. Turn looks fine, you have about 40% equity even against a made flush.

JackAll

09-24-2006, 03:54 AM

I lead this flop. If you c/r, then raise for FE which means full pot size bet.

That turn is pertty god damn awesome. You now have 19 outs to the nuts. Holy cow!

Ok, 17 since he has 2 in his hand. Still awesome though.

I would either open push or c/r all-in. I particulaly like a c/r all-in on the turn. You are likely behind right now, so I would check and hope they check behind for a free card, and if they bet, I would just raise all-in for FE (since you win less than 50% of the time and need FE), as well as the fact that any of your 17 cards might not get money from him (which is why c/c on the turn sucks ass, as does betting less than a push).