homosexuality 4.0

[bdypdx]

Look folks,

Some of us are homos. Ok? (I call myself a [censored], but the powers that be will censor it) Whatever...

Given the human population on Earth, we occur. But, we are not causing any sort of monumental problems. I can't figure out how us homosexuals tweak you folks so much. What did we do? Why do you anti-homosexuals have such a problem with it?

It seems like you guys think about it way more than I (we) do. WTF?? Yeah, us homosexuals have us some sex. I really hope it bothers you as well.

-bdy

[bdypdx]

I'm really, really tired of the comments as to how I am "unnatural". If "unnatural", why am I here?

[miketurner]

I, personally, don’t hate you or anything like that. But if I say that I think the things you do are gross, people lump me into the same category as people who hate you. I think this is a mistake.
Also, I doubt I think about it more that you do. I pretty much don’t think about it at all unless someone else brings it up. But if you say that you are gay, I don’t close my mind as to what that actually means.

For what it’s worth, I think you are much less of a bourdon on society than people like this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post4534432 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4534432&an=0&page=0#Post 4534432)
The only bourdon on society that you (not you personally, but gays in general) could be responsible for is health cost, because such a high rate of you do dangerous things (barebacking, etc) . But smokers have a far greater effect on health costs than you do, & no one seems to "hate" them.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem. I am very certain that some things you do or think, seem gross to me. Believing in a god comes to mind. But, het, as long as you don't force me to do your thing, there are no problems.

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem. I am very certain that some things you do or think, seem gross to me. Believing in a god comes to mind. But, het, as long as you don't force me to do your thing, there are no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

& that is fine... It is not a hate crime for you to think that my believing in God is gross.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem. I am very certain that some things you do or think, seem gross to me. Believing in a god comes to mind. But, het, as long as you don't force me to do your thing, there are no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

& that is fine... It is not a hate crime for you to think that my believing in God is gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant morally monstruously gross that such an entity would condone or use suffering and punishment to satisfy its own ends. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Your belief in it is just a blinkered belief, refusing to "see" things as they are. <font color="yellow"> </font>

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem. I am very certain that some things you do or think, seem gross to me. Believing in a god comes to mind. But, het, as long as you don't force me to do your thing, there are no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

&amp; that is fine... It is not a hate crime for you to think that my believing in God is gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant morally monstruously gross that such an entity would condone or use suffering and punishment to satisfy its own ends. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Your belief in it is just a blinkered belief, refusing to "see" things as they are. <font color="yellow"> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

&amp; yet, as repulsed as you are... it is still not a hate crime for you to feel this way.

If we met in person, would you be civil to me? I would be civil to bdypdx.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
If we met in person, would you be civil to me? I would be civil to bdypdx

[/ QUOTE ]

Good enough, I am sure he would be civil to you too. As for me and believers, what choices have I got? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bdypdx]

You can't even spell words correctly.

Not "bourdon", I think you meant to say, "burden".

Quite frankly, I am not engaged in danger to society. The most recent dangerous thing I've witnessed lately, is a nice white woman in an SUV on the phone while in traffic.

And so, us homos get the blame? I can bareback all I want, and it really doesn't have any relation to your life. I'm in a monagamous relationship. I do what I want and it's none of your business!

-bdy

Sorry, give me more...

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't even spell words correctly.

Not "bourdon", I think you meant to say, "burden".

Quite frankly, I am not engaged in danger to society. The most recent dangerous thing I've witnessed lately, is a nice white woman in an SUV on the phone while in traffic.

-bdy

Sorry, give me more...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, don’t be offended man. I wasn’t emphasizing that I thought you WERE a “burden”, I thought I made it clear that I was emphasizing that you were LESS of a burden than other more “acceptable” vices.

[Phil153]

If you keep your weirdness in your bedroom, and don't shove it in our face, there's no problem. I don't have a problem with people with foot or rimming or dominatrix fetishes either. As long as they don't talk about it over dinner, make TV shows about it, or expect to have their sexual perversion accepted as normal, then fine. Plug away son.

[bdypdx]

Ok.

How am I a burden at all?

I work. I pay my taxes, etc. I contribute (volunteerism) to my community. I contribute to my family, and, my partner's family.

So, where's the burden on society?

- bdy

[bdypdx]

Excuse me dude,

You can keep your weirdness in your bedroom as well.

- bdy

[bdypdx]

[ QUOTE ]
If you keep your weirdness in your bedroom, and don't shove it in our face, there's no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Heterosexual girls/women have told me all sorts of things....I'm gay and they tell me things that you, as a straight male, will not hear.....so, believe me straight guys, I've heard it.

-bdy

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you keep your weirdness in your bedroom, and don't shove it in our face, there's no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Heterosexual girls/women have told me all sorts of things....I'm gay and they tell me things that you, as a straight male, will not hear.....so, believe me straight guys, I've heard it.

-bdy

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm glad that being gay makes you privy to special "girl stuff". Is it worth the Santorum? http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9929/rollin9xl.gif

[bdypdx]

Don't care.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gay and they tell me things that you, as a straight male, will not hear

[/ QUOTE ]


If you think we believe we're missing something by not hearing even more emotion-laden stream-of-consciousness girl-talk babbling than we normally do with a woman in a relationship, you are nuts. All we want to do is turn the volume down while nodding our heads and pretending to be listening.

[bdypdx]

Ok.

You are missing something. You tell me that your wife/girlfriend is merely a babbler? And that you refuse to listen to her?

You seem to forget that she is a human-being.

Even though, you're a jerk...she's still there? Go figure?

-bdy

P.S.
Nod your head....you seem to be rather lethargic and heavy...

[bdypdx]

[ QUOTE ]
But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmm.....actually my sexuality was not exclusively gay in my early years. So, I can say that some of the vaginas I've run into have not been profoundly "un-gross", if you will.

Sorry dude,
-bdy

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummmmm.....actually my sexuality was not exclusively gay in my early years

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, you developed a growing fetish over time for men and their poopers. Classic gay development model.

Perhaps men initially filled some emotional need, and so you started developing fetishes for the male form and a need for male affection. Who knows. In the end, without a sufficient will to recognise the perversion and retrain it - especially during the formative years - it grew strong enough to overcome your natural sexual urges and desire for normality and functionality. Not that different to people who develop foot fetishes or vomit fetishes or autoerotic urges.

[morphball]

Homophobes are people that can't accept their own same sex feelings. There is show on HBO running right now that shows the result of a university study. It conclusively showed that the people who claimed to be str8 and exhibited higher degrees of disdain for homosexuality than others became sexually aroused when watching gay porn.

Remember that when you see or hear about a gay basher. They are gay themselves and hate themselves for it. That's why, bdypdx.

[Phil153]

morph - labelling people "homophobes" has been a successful part of gay propaganda for a long time. Attributing their motives to underlying fear of their own homosexual feelings is common. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's not. But to make blanket ad hominem attacks such as yours is the sign of a poor mind and poor debater.

I have a dislike for people with vomit fetishes too. I think it's sick and abnormal. Do I secretly get hard when I see vomit?

I have a dislike for straight anal sex. Based on what I know about anatomy and disease, I think it's sick. Do I secretly want to [censored] my girlfriend in the ass?

I have a strong disdain for the current republicans in office. I think they're very dangerous. Does that mean I'm a closet republican?

Yours in absurdity,

Phil.

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok.

How am I a burden at all?

I work. I pay my taxes, etc. I contribute (volunteerism) to my community. I contribute to my family, and, my partner's family.

So, where's the burden on society?

- bdy

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop taking it so personal. I’m happy for you in your monogamous relationship. To answer the more general question... here ya go: about 1,700,000 results from the search "what effect does homosexuality have on health care costs?"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q...%3F&amp;spell=1 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=What+effect+does+homosexuality+have +on+health+care+costs%3F&amp;spell=1)

[miketurner]

Here, I easily found one with no “Christian agenda”... just straight forward medical facts. You should read this.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040501/2149.html

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
&amp; that is fine... It is not a hate crime for you to think that my believing in God is gross.


[/ QUOTE ]
It is no crime to think anyone is gross.

[TimM]

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If you keep your weirdness in your bedroom, and don't shove it in our face, there's no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you feel about two guys walking down the street holding hands? Or two women kissing at a ball game?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
If you keep your weirdness in your bedroom, and don't shove it in our face, there's no problem. I don't have a problem with people with foot or rimming or dominatrix fetishes either. As long as they don't talk about it over dinner, make TV shows about it, or expect to have their sexual perversion accepted as normal, then fine. Plug away son.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about people such as myself who are annoyed by googley-eyed hetero couples calling each other "pooky" and making kissy faces in public and on TV?

I'm annoyed by the stupidity of Sunday afternoon football commercials. Should I lobby to have them taken off the air?

In my experience, gay people don't talk about their sex lives in mixed company any more than straight people do (in fact I think straight people are more likely to do it).

They're not hurting anyone. They have freedom of speech. If you don't like it, go live under a box with a TV turned to FOX news 24-7, and you'll be safe.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
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But if I say that I think the things you do are gross,

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem. I am very certain that some things you do or think, seem gross to me. Believing in a god comes to mind. But, het, as long as you don't force me to do your thing, there are no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

&amp; that is fine... It is not a hate crime for you to think that my believing in God is gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant morally monstruously gross that such an entity would condone or use suffering and punishment to satisfy its own ends. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Your belief in it is just a blinkered belief, refusing to "see" things as they are. <font color="yellow"> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

&amp; yet, as repulsed as you are... it is still not a hate crime for you to feel this way.

If we met in person, would you be civil to me? I would be civil to bdypdx.

[/ QUOTE ]
Civility is nice but not really the point. Would you support legislation that discriminates against those groups you don't feel comfortable with, if so how civil do you want them to be in return?

chez

[morphball]

Phil - I am at work and was on the first post, so if I blurred some things in the first or here are not clear, sorry, please bear with me.

[ QUOTE ]
labelling people "homophobes" has been a successful part of gay propaganda for a long time. Attributing their motives to underlying fear of their own homosexual feelings is common. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's not. But to make blanket ad hominem attacks such as yours is the sign of a poor mind and poor debater.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this, but I will agree that I am a poor debater. I, however, disagree about gay "propaganda". One, I am not saying that all people who a disagree with homosexuality are themselves gay, just those who become overly vehement about it. Like you said, you have an aversion to a vomit fetish, me too actually, but what if you saw a vomit fetish video on-line. Would you become emotionally outraged, or would you just laugh (like me) and probably watch it a few more times for kicks? That's what I am pointing to, I am not saying that everyone who overtly disapproves of homosexuality is gay, just those who become emotionally overcharged.

Phil, I don't even know you, but I hope that you do not get hard when you see vomitting. BTW, so people can see where I coming from, I am straight, but I do have a few interesting fetishes...

[kurto]

I agree with a lot of this. I recently saw a documentary where they tested this. A university hooked up a bunch of homophobes (there was a control group of people who weren't homophobes) to tests and had them watch pornography (hetero and homosexual)... the homophobes had a much greater tendency to get aroused at gay porn. And then they lied about their arousal afterwards.

Furthermore, and this is anecdotal... I've had a number of gay friends or acquaintances who admitted how they were violently homophobic prior to coming out.

I don't think this means everyone who is turned off by gays is actually gay. But I'm willing to bet the gay bashers and a lot of the anti-gay crusaders may be in the closet, on fire and afraid to come out.

[bdypdx]

I won't deny the medical facts. However, the medical facts may just have something to do with the "loving" culture we live in.

Seriously, the xtians pull a few obscure quotes out of their bible to justify their own hatreds and homophobia. That's the culture I live in...

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
Civility is nice but not really the point. Would you support legislation that discriminates against those groups you don't feel comfortable with, if so how civil do you want them to be in return?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you’re talking politics, which is a different monster altogether. Would you vote FOR a bill that gave gays anything that they wanted, but there was an amendment in there that said we would nuke all countries that didn’t speak English as their main language? If you vote for the bill, you have voted for using nukes... if you vote against the bill, you hate gays. Sure, this is an exaggerated hypothetical... but this TYPE of thing happens all the time. To prove my point, here is an example of a anti-gay rights amendment being put into a eminent domain bill from today's Indy Star. Aaaaugh! I hate politics. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...=73233669215638 (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060125/NEWS02/601250437&amp;SearchID=73233669215638)

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
I won't deny the medical facts. However, the medical facts may just have something to do with the "loving" culture we live in.

Seriously, the xtians pull a few obscure quotes out of their bible to justify their own hatreds and homophobia. That's the culture I live in...

[/ QUOTE ]

I repeat...Here, I easily found one with no “Christian agenda”... just straight forward medical facts. You should read this. I think it directly answers your question as to your burden on society. I'm not being hateful (I don't hate you. Heck, I'm not even mad at you), just looking at the facts.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040501/2149.html

[PokerAmateur4]

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How do you feel about ... two women kissing at a ball game?

[/ QUOTE ]
Grand. Eh? Lesbians? Eh? C'mon....

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Civility is nice but not really the point. Would you support legislation that discriminates against those groups you don't feel comfortable with, if so how civil do you want them to be in return?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you’re talking politics, which is a different monster altogether. Would you vote FOR a bill that gave gays anything that they wanted, but there was an amendment in there that said we would nuke all countries that didn’t speak English as their main language? If you vote for the bill, you have voted for using nukes... if you vote against the bill, you hate gays. Sure, this is an exaggerated hypothetical... but this TYPE of thing happens all the time. To prove my point, here is an example of a anti-gay rights amendment being put into a eminent domain bill from today's Indy Star. Aaaaugh! I hate politics. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...=73233669215638 (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060125/NEWS02/601250437&amp;SearchID=73233669215638)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah lets avoid the messy political stuff, there's no need to discuss the practical murk. However there's still the matter of whether in principle you support discrimination in law against groups you don't approve of. The issue are often pretty straightforward. e.g for homosexuals

Legality of homosexuality amongst consenting adults

Same legal definition of adult as for hetrosexuals

No legal distinction in tax laws, inheritence, guardianship etc for homosexual couples than for hetrosexual couples.

Same adoption rights.

What you view on those sort of things?

chez

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]

Legality of homosexuality amongst consenting adults

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fine with that. Is it against the law now?

[ QUOTE ]
Same legal definition of adult as for hetrosexuals

[/ QUOTE ]Not sure I understand what you mean

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No legal distinction in tax laws, inheritence, guardianship etc for homosexual couples than for hetrosexual couples.

[/ QUOTE ]Fine with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Same adoption rights.

[/ QUOTE ]I think we need more loving parents, regardless of gay or straight. So, yeah... I'm fine with that.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Legality of homosexuality amongst consenting adults

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fine with that. Is it against the law now?

[ QUOTE ]
Same legal definition of adult as for hetrosexuals

[/ QUOTE ]Not sure I understand what you mean

[ QUOTE ]
No legal distinction in tax laws, inheritence, guardianship etc for homosexual couples than for hetrosexual couples.

[/ QUOTE ]Fine with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Same adoption rights.

[/ QUOTE ]I think we need more loving parents, regardless of gay or straight. So, yeah... I'm fine with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, that's all fine then, no reason for anyone to be uncivil /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm sure you recognise that many people are far less reasonable than you.

In the uk a regular issue before parliament is the minimum legal age of consent for consenting sex. Not sure what it is these days but it used to be 16 for hetrosexual and 21 for homosexuals - maybe you never had anything so silly in the US.

chez

[hmkpoker]

Yeah...the unfortunately high correlation between strong christian belief and strong anti-homosexual sentiment has some of us unconsciously lumping you in with FlFishOn /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[FlFishOn]

"That's the culture I live in... "

Feel free to choose another. This one works, 2000 year history of overall success.

P.S. Islam may prove to be a poor choice.

[miketurner]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah...the unfortunately high correlation between strong christian belief and strong anti-homosexual sentiment has some of us unconsciously lumping you in with FlFishOn /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m not sure if you are being funny here or insulting me.
How do I say this... My Christian beliefs only make me responsible for me. While I might be concerned for someone else, Matthew 7:3 says “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye.” In other words, I have my own [censored] to worry about.
You atheist who only want “ammo” against a Christian who is judging you should memorize this verse and it’s location in the Bible. It could come in handy, and I can’t think of how the judging Christian could retort. It is likely that you could eventually even throw this back in MY face at some point. I forget sometimes, as do many Christians.