Information/Technology Revolution will be the end of Religion

[KingNeo]

The following are my opinions based on logic and observation.

As I previously stated religion is used/created to help humans explain the unexplainable. I think it is important to note that different religions are popular in different sectors of the world. The reason for this is that religion is used to help structure society and have a population believe in the same fundamentals to make them strong and prosperous. A population of humans working together instead of individually will develop much faster.

Thoughts such as existence and death cannot be explained.
Fear and ignorance lead to chaos and a way to prevent this is to create a set of beliefs that will alleviate fears.

Religions prey on the weak and ignorant because it still is able to control them to this day, but it is growing smaller and smaller each year.

Currently man is going through the MOST important time in human history. We are experiencing the largest information and technology boom in history.

The widespread dissemination of information is the WORST possible thing for religion. Instead of the masses being ignorant and unable to think and explain things, now they are aware of scientific facts.

Previously unexplained miracles are now being explained by science.

The internet is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the history of mankind.

As humans become more intelligent religion will end as it is no longer needed to explain things we cannot explain.

The internet and information will still never explain our existence or life after death, instead it will prove how much of a fairy tale religion is and why it is no longer relevant in today's society.

The concept of God will always persist as this is a completely separate subject than religion, but religion will continue to crumble as more information and technology is accessible to humans.

-The Gospel of KingNeo

[Meromorphic]

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Instead of the masses being ignorant and unable to think and explain things, now they are aware of scientific facts.


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I think you are wildly overoptimistic.

[Rduke55]

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The internet is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the history of mankind.

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Fire, tool use, language, agriculture, etc., etc., etc.?

[luckyme]

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The concept of God will always persist as this is a completely separate subject than religion, but religion will continue to crumble as more information and technology is accessible to humans.

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Besides the obvious political usefulness of religion, a certain percentage of people get their 'We-They', and related, needs satisfied by religion, so cult-style religion ( like xtrianity) will always pop up for social-pyschological reasons.

luckyme

[Prodigy54321]

1) religion has a way of refuting a solid argunment until it is absolutely proven to be true (elovution).

2) then after it is proven to be true, religion has a way of adapting to it. maybe not the true diehard religious people, but most of the religious world

---in conclusion, evolution will soon be adapted by christians and they will claim that is does not refute the claims of christianity...i don't know how, but they will....right now they're still in the denial stage /images/graemlins/wink.gif

---I think you give the average person toooooo much credit
--Maybe your predictions will come true, but I think it's further down the timeline than you think it is

or maybe not...when do you think these changes will come?

[KingNeo]

It is a gradual process.

IMO if you take a step back and look at the current information/technology boom we are going through, this is going to be the largest evolution of humans in over 1000 years.

Communication and information is currently causing humans to evolve.

I think that religion will be completely gone in 400 years. Obviously this is a rough estimate, but I see it in 4 generations.

Truthfully, it might even be sooner if our technology revolution keeps on its exponential expansion.

What I truly think will happen is religion will evolve as well. Instead of basing the beliefs on fairy tale images, it will start to ask more questions and hopefully keep an open mind.

[godBoy]

Some aetheists refute belief in God for this very reason, knowing all the answer but one. God would never offer a full explanation, then you're not choosing him.

I think that intelligent design will soon be accepted by science. People will look back at the 'logic' they used in rationalising creation without a creator and be shocked and amazed.

[New001]

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I think that intelligent design will soon be accepted by science. People will look back at the 'logic' they used in rationalising creation without a creator and be shocked and amazed.

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As long as science remains, well, science, your prediction can never come true.

No matter how many times you want to repeat that it's science, Intelligent Design clearly is not. It's an attempt by religion to fill in the gaps that science has. That does not make it science.

[miketurner]

I have many thoughts on your subject, but I have a 2 year old tugging at my pant leg. I’ll try to get back to this thread when I have mor time. For now, I will just fix what was clearly a typo on your part.
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The internet is the SINGLE MOST UNRELIABLE thing in the history of mankind.

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There, that's much more accurate. You're welcome

[Jeff V]

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Religions prey on the weak and ignorant because it still is able to control them to this day, but it is growing smaller and smaller each year.

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I bet you actually felt yourself get smarter as you typed that.

[KingNeo]

Jeff, is that an attempt to make fun of my grammar?

Even if it wasn't grammatically correct, the argument still stands.

Religion preys on the weak and convinces them they need it.

Strong minded/willed people do not need the crutch that religion provides.

Organized religion is a joke. It is a competition about who can recruit more zombies and raise more money.

[KingNeo]

Mike,

The internet is the single most important thing in human history.

Communication across the world and access to any information you want in seconds in causing human evolution as I type this.

Obviously there will be false information on the internet, but it is up to the user to determine this. The fact remains is that the information is readily accessible.

Humans will no longer be blind and ignorant.

Imagine walking into a dark room and you can't see anything.

The internet is the light switch, just flip it and you can see.....

[Jeff V]

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Jeff, is that an attempt to make fun of my grammar?


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No. I was referring to your arrogance seen again below.

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Religion preys on the weak and convinces them they need it.

Strong minded/willed people do not need the crutch that religion provides.

Organized religion is a joke. It is a competition about who can recruit more zombies and raise more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

While everyone can have their own oppinion, I happen to think you're way off base. Furthermore making blanket assertations about strong and weak minded people not only shows arrogance but ignorance as well.

[chezlaw]

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1) religion has a way of refuting a solid argunment until it is absolutely proven to be true (elovution).

2) then after it is proven to be true, religion has a way of adapting to it. maybe not the true diehard religious people, but most of the religious world

---in conclusion, evolution will soon be adapted by christians and they will claim that is does not refute the claims of christianity...

[/ QUOTE ]
Dead on and the reason why not only is DS wrong about religon being much to do with evidence but attacking religon with evidence is misguided. All it does is perpetuate an arms war resulting in fitter religons.




chez

[Prodigy54321]

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I think that intelligent design will soon be accepted by science. People will look back at the 'logic' they used in rationalising creation without a creator and be shocked and amazed.

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although ID is not even close to having as much evidence as evolution, i do not immediately dismiss some kind of creator or some kind of ID, but not in the way that most of the religious population thinks of it as somehow giving their creationism (specifically christian creationism) more merit....sure it is possible that an entity facilitated the creation of a universe as big as ours and for some odd reason decided to focus on one tiny pinch of a planet as earth is, but I place it at very low odds /images/graemlins/grin.gif

And I don't think that most of the scientific world would be too ready to take their official stance on the universe as "It's too confusing for us to understand right now, so their must have been a divine creator."

I think no matter how much pseudo proof ID gets, there will always be a greater possibility that we are just not smart enough to understand the universe...yet.

[KingNeo]

In the US, the number of non-religious people has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just eight percent of the total in 1990 to over fourteen percent in 2001.

This was the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms among all religious groups.

Source: 2001 American Religious Identification Survey.

[soon2bepro]

Kingneo: I totally agree with your original post.

Communication and technology are the two key elements in human evolution. Now it's internet and computers. Tomorrow who knows.

I would like to add that the evolution for humans is going to work faster and faster everyday. 5,000 years ago, evolution was very slow. Nowadays we have to wait 10 years for major changes to be achieved. Wait another 20 and it'll be 5. I think eventually, humans will evolve so fast that a single night of sleep could mean what for a prehistoric human would mean to fall asleep and wake up today.

The single most important human characteristic that gives us an edge over all other animals is the ability to multiply our power by joining forces. 1 human alone is pretty much useless. 10 humans working together are much more powerful than 10 times a single human. Maybe 100 times as much. And the scale is not proportional, so you figure it out. The more of us there are, and the better communicated (joined) we are, the more powerful we will be.

This doesn't happen with other animals, even those who join forces for a common goal. A pack of 7 lions can jump on an elephant (excuse the term /images/graemlins/laugh.gif), they'll be 5 or 6 times as powerful as a single lion. Some of them will die but the rest will have a feast. But they're unable to join forces in a way that makes their group abilities serve the common goal more than their individual abilities would. In fact, they're much the contrary, they get in each others way, they're unable to coordinate.

Internet is the single most important event in human history as of today in the matter of communication, whereas computers are probably the most important invention in the matter of technology.

What's so great is that now more and more is global communication and technology available to the common people. This should be of major help. And sure, religion doesn't have much time left. It's not going to be long before they stop being a majority -- 55 years maybe.

--
This was the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms among all religious groups.
--

Be careful or you'll get inmigrant haters to flame on you /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Borodog]

Ants.

[KingNeo]

I am glad that others find this interesting as well.

It is an inevitable trend that is occuring every day.

[Piers]

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Information/Technology Revolution will be the end of Religion

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Sorry I disagree. Easier access to current scientific models or information on religious beliefs is not going to change anything. If someone holds a religious belief now, they are not going to change their mind because of some data they are not going to access.

With easier access to scientific knowledge comes easier access to religious indoctrination material.

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As humans become more intelligent

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif The human race becoming more intelligent, what a curious thing to believe.

[KingNeo]

So you believe the human race is not getting smarter???

Obviously you are joking.

Explain computers, cars, and genetic engineering as oppose to hunting for food and wiping your ass with leaves.

[Piers]

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Explain computers, cars, and genetic engineering as oppose to hunting for food and wiping your ass with leaves.

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Human society is getting more advanced.

[KingNeo]

Are you being serious? Please don't post in my threads again.

Is there anyone else who thinks that this is an interesting topic and has validity?

You must take a step back and realize the inverse correlation between the advances in technology and the dimished effect religion has on our culture.

[Piers]

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Are you being serious?

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Yes. I do not believe number of offspring is positively correlated with high intelligence.

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Please don't post in my threads again.

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So anyone who disagrees with you is not allowed to post in your threads. You do realise that this is a discussion forum?

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As humans become more intelligent religion will end as it is no longer needed to explain things we cannot explain.

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Is there anyone else who thinks that this is an interesting topic and has validity?

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You brought the subject up.

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You must take a step back and realize the inverse correlation between the advances in technology and the dimished effect religion has on our culture.

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You are correct that there has been a correlation here. However I do not think this effect will necessarily continue.

Science has reached a level where it can address at some level, just about any subject its capable of explaining. Anyone able to be biased against religion due to science already has enough reason to be so biased. Further scientific advances will likely not convince anyone who holds religious beliefs despite the current level of scientific knowledge.

Still social evolution is a complex area. I would not consider any long-term prediction reliable.

[KingNeo]

Ok, I respect your opinions.

I apologize for my comment about not posting.

I just couldn't believe that you would argue against the fact that the human race is not getting smarter.

[soon2bepro]

We should probably define intelligence before going any further.

Maybe Piers measures intelligence in brain size and processing capability. I guess in that sense, we're not going to change in 5 or 10 years, without technological advances that help in that department.

[Prodigy54321]

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The single most important human characteristic that gives us an edge over all other animals is the ability to multiply our power by joining forces. 1 human alone is pretty much useless. 10 humans working together are much more powerful than 10 times a single human. Maybe 100 times as much. And the scale is not proportional, so you figure it out. The more of us there are, and the better communicated (joined) we are, the more powerful we will be.

This doesn't happen with other animals, even those who join forces for a common goal. A pack of 7 lions can jump on an elephant (excuse the term ), they'll be 5 or 6 times as powerful as a single lion. Some of them will die but the rest will have a feast. But they're unable to join forces in a way that makes their group abilities serve the common goal more than their individual abilities would. In fact, they're much the contrary, they get in each others way, they're unable to coordinate.

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I agree that communication greatly increases how well humans work together and that this increase is exponential...but

you lions and elephant analogy isn't true and I believe proves the opposite. each of those lions going after an elephant individually will yield no meal for any of them, but working together they can succeed, just as humans working together on a task as opposed to individually. The evolution of communication among humans does make their ability together exponentially greater.. but lions working together are also more successful than the sum of them individually..and this is also the case with many types of animals

I think a better statement would be..

"the single most important characterstic of humans is the ability to increase the effectiveness of our communication and thus the exponential increase of our abilities when working together"

[soon2bepro]

Prodigy54321: you're wrong, and let me explain why:

The fact that lions will be able to achieve a goal in a group that they wouldn't be able

to achieve individually means only that the group is more powerful than the individuals,

but not that the group must be more powerful than the SUM of the individuals' power. If

one lion's power is equal to L1, and it takes L6 to hunt an elephant without major

losses, which provides enough food for 10 lions, lions will need to join forces enough to

reach that L6-almost power. What I said is that it would take at least 7 lions for that.

(and this you can figure out by watching any documental on the subject)


But look at humans instead. You have one human, trying to get food, shelter and warmth

for himself. He may try picking up a fruit if he finds one for food. Maybe eat worms or

other insects. He may find a cave with enough luck but will probably never make it on his

own. He is pretty much useless. His total "power" is H1.

But see what happens when you put a group of 500 humans together. They may find out about

fire and it's uses in cooking and producing heat; they may produce piercing objects out

of wood and stone and start hunting/fishing in groups, they may then learn to use animal

skins as cover. They may even learn how to pick the right caves or even build huts. They

will somewhat organize their work and better themselves, to a point where their total

power is much more than one per individual. Maybe H100,000, for a total individual power of H200 per individual human.

Now try 150,000 humans. You'll probabably be talking about social organization here.

Professions, lots of new inventions, etc. Their individual power will again grow in a non directly proportional manner. You could be talking about 1,000,000H per individual.

This of course increases not only with numbers, but also with communication and with the information evolution. Humans can learn, that means that the more a particular group goes on trying to get the same things, the more they'll be able to multiply their power as time passes, by learning.

And have in mind that i put these examples as they're more realistic, but in these societies humans are not really all connected and trying to reach the same goal. Hopefully internet will help a bit there, though.

[Prodigy54321]

Alright i still don't quite understand how lions grouping together are not even slightly greater than the sum of their parts, but I'll trust you on that.. you seem to know what ur talking about.

I still hold however that communication between humans is the reason that a group of humans CAN be greater than the sum of their parts. The things that you mentioned (fire, tools, professions, etc) would not be possible without a higher quality of communication than say lions, and increases is the effectiveness of communication does indeed increase the greater power of humans working together rather than individually. (along with our ability to learn and retain information etc.)

maybe I'm arguing a point that you are not refuting, not sure

[Borodog]

Congratulations. You've just reinvented the division of labor (although your numbers are terribly off). Maybe tomorrow you can reinvent the wheel! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Prodigy54321]

so should I or should i not trust his lions analogy...I'm too lazy to search and read, so i'll take false information if needed /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[soon2bepro]

The numbers were only for example purposes and had no similaritiy to real history whatsoever.

And no, you shouldn't trust ANYONE's opinion in a matter where you can make your own. If you ARE going to trust someone on what they think, usually try to get many expert's opinions. And make sure they ARE experts. I'm no expert on the subject, I really don't know where you got that idea. (though that doesn't mean I don't know what i'm talking about -- I've done a lot of thinking on the subject, plus some research)

Just try to catch an episode like this in discovery channel, or search the web for it. Lions can't coordinate. They just attack at the same time, but it's obvious that they obstruct each other in a way. Sure, the added power and different points of attacking is what makes 7 lions reach something like L5 or L6 power at attacking an elephant, but it really doesn't work adding up more than one's worth per individual.

Humans strategize, humans build, produce.

Theoretically it's much easier to strategize a single individuals' fight strategy than to do the same for higher numbers; but humans have the ability to build better weapons and think of different particular "counter-weapons" (particular tools that are extremely effective in particular situations) that will make their fights (or any objectives they pursue) much easier to win/reach.

[CallMeIshmael]

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The internet is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the history of mankind.

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This is absolutely absurd.

(havent read the thread, so I might be repeating)

[CallMeIshmael]

You might be a troll, I cant really tell.

But, are you aware that there is a difference between INTELLIGENCE and KNOWLEDGE?

Are you trying to argue that humans have evolved so much from, say, 500 years ago, that if we somehow managed to steal a baby from that time period and raise it in 2006, he/she would be less intelligent than other babies?

[miketurner]

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The internet is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the history of mankind.

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This is absolutely absurd.

(havent read the thread, so I might be repeating)

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Yes, I agree. The internet is the biggest tool for spreading ignorance the world has ever seen. Since so many people believe anything they read on the net, and anyone can make a web site for minimal cost... surely you can see the problem here.

This is not the first time in history where man has marveled at his own brilliance. It even happened in bible times.

Oh, and I concur with op that atheists numbers are likely to grow... that is written also. I just don’t agree that it’s because you are “smarter.” ;-)

[malorum]

http://www.ishipress.com/666.htm

http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/

[soon2bepro]

[ QUOTE ]

But, are you aware that there is a difference between INTELLIGENCE and KNOWLEDGE?

Are you trying to argue that humans have evolved so much from, say, 500 years ago, that if we somehow managed to steal a baby from that time period and raise it in 2006, he/she would be less intelligent than other babies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there isn't much /images/graemlins/laugh.gif... It really depends on what you call intelligence. Most experts agree there are various kinds of intelligence, and mostly all of them can be improved through education. If you're talking about brain capacity, I doubt anyone is trying to say that. Though it might be arguable that now that man has more free time (mainly: their basic needs take less time to fulfill, but there are other arguments for this), there is more room for abstract thinking. Therefore you could argue that this type of intelligence has grown over the past 10,000+ years and continues to grow at a faster rate everyday. However, that doesn't mean that we have evolved genetically speaking. In fact, I think most would agree on the oppossite. "Survival of the fittest" just doesn't apply nowadays. Sure, rich people tend to have better lives, but they also tend to have a lot less children than poor people. But mostly it's the fact that it doesn't really take a "fittest" person to be richer. If the difference is huge, this could have relevance, but most likely people just stay within the social enviroment they grew up in.

I think he wasn't at all trying to argue what you say (ask?) (about that baby being less intelligent)