Does playing AceX suited ever makes sense in limit cashgames?

[tizzl]

hello,

i play 1/2$ limit cashgames (fullring) online. I played no limit earlier but not anymore. I read a lot about fixed limit cash games and most of the authors mention playing Ace little x suited makes
sometimes because of the nut flush possiblity.

But: I think i never get the odds to play (f.e.) a2´s even in a loose aggressive 10 handed cashgame.

Because: if you got a2´s you´ll hit the the flop with a nutflushdraw about 1 out of 9 times and you´ll get your nutflush at the turn or river 36% of the time (1 out of 3 times).

so at the end i´ll hit my nut flush 1 out of 27 times.

That means i´d need at least pot odds of 1 to 26 make a call?

I don´t recognized the possibilities of hittin´a full house, three of a kind or two pair because it doesn´t matter in that point so much.

so: if my calculations are correct it would mean that acex´s got no place in limit holdem games where you play most of the hands with 4 player or less on the flop?

Please let me know what you think about that.

Regards

tizzl

[HollywoodDB]

Yes, you will play Axs less in a tight game than you would in a loose game. It not all about the flush. You also have 2 pair and trips, not to mention your TPNK will be good sometimies.

[HoneyBadger]

Actually, in a very tight game, I think it becomes correct to open-raise hands like A6s from middle position. But that's an exception.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

A6s-A2s plays best in LP games. They work pretty well in LAG games as well but best from late position. I like the A6s raise from MP in a TP game but I would tend to only fire 2 from LMP or later in this type of game.

AKs-A7s plays pretty well LP, LAG and TP games. I avoid TAG games so I'm not sure, but I would probably tighten up to AKs-A9s and take shots from late middle and late position only occasionally with A8s-A7s.

[dedenburn]

In addition to the two pair, boat, trips consideration you're also ignoring the top pair potential. In tighter games it is sometimes enough to win even with no kicker. Your estimation of odds ignores the implied odds you're getting, especially in loose games where fulshes pay off huge. Ax suited is very profitable in the right situations...

[Niediam]

What you apparently don't realize is that the main strength of Axs is simply making a pair of aces.

That along is not enough to make the hand playable (or we would regularly be playing A6o) but if you only played hand hand for it's 'big hand' potential it would definately be a loser.

Playing Kxs regularly is not adviced much here or in books. It's not becuase a king high flush is so much worse than an ace high flush. Both will win the pot the vast majority of the time. It's not because your king high flush ius going to run into ace high flushes. If you play a ton only this might happen once a month - but yes it sucks hard when it happens. It's because a pair of kings isn't as valuable as a pair of aces. When you flop kings way too often either an ace will be out there also or one will come on the turn or river.

[Maliant]

FYI I would rather play K-rag than ace-rag, because so many bad players play all their aces yet instictually they fold hands like k2-k9, so when board is K high usually you will have only King compared to Ace high boards.

[Hyperrrprank]

The other thing that you're not taking into account are those hands where you won't hit your flush, but the possession of even a small pair with the nut flush DRAW will allow you to bet strongly and win pots without a showdown. Anytime you hit any kind of hand with Ax, you'll be drawing to a TON of outs. With A2s for instance, if the board comes 2 6 8 with two of your suit, you've got 2 outs to trips, 3 to Aces up, and 9 to the flush. You can easily bet and raise with this, depending on the number of players and your position, and should take down enough pots without hitting the flush to add a great deal of value to these hands.

Even the backdoor nut flush draw adds significant value to otherwise marginal hands, especially in small stakes games where there are frequently enough players in to pay off the correct odds when you're drawing behind.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI I would rather play K-rag than ace-rag, because so many bad players play all their aces yet instictually they fold hands like k2-k9, so when board is K high usually you will have only King compared to Ace high boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's hilarious. So many bad players will play Kx offsuit for one bet. Most games, I'm the only one who would ever fold K9o. You must play in tight no-fold em games.

Getting back to the matter, I happen to think that Axs is a profitable hand, but it can be a problem if you can't figure out when to fold top pair in a game that is aggressive post-flop even if it is passive pre-flop.

[DiCkO]

I think OP is neglecting implied odds, which can make AXs playable in certain situations; you don't need 26-1 immediate odds on the flop to play!