270 Days Pretty Solid -- no run on the banks necessary

[Hock_]

[Same caveat as my "Summary post" -- this should not be considered legal advice]

Having re-read the statute with a clearer head, I am now much more comfortable in predicting that financial institutions will NOT do anything to stop transactions until the Fed has promulgated its regs. The Act does not place any obligations on financial institutions other than those regs; the prohibition is on the parties "accepting" the transactions -- i.e., the sites. Moreover, the limitation on liability for financial institutions in s. 5364(d) is in part (subpart 3) premised on following the regs, so financial institutions could actually be exposing themselves to liability if they block "clean" transactions before the regs are finalized.

And I think it will likely take at least 270 days for regs to get done.

Bottom line: No run on the banks necessary; we probably all have at least 270 days, at least as far as moving money is concerned.

[fsuplayer]

god i hope so.

[Stashua]

Good luck. The answer is not legislative but judicial. I still think the answer lays with the Americans with Disablities Act, and subsequently the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment. If the ban can't be construed in those terms, look for another way to sate your appetite.

[Phil123]

If you guys in the USA are allowed to withdraw but not deposit can't you just tranfer money to a friends bank in another country and get your friend to transfer money to your Poker account via the poker site. Thus you can still fund your poker account via your friend in another country and still withdraw money as the act doesn't cover withdrawals? I know not everyone knows someone in another country that they trust enough to do this but it could be a good solution for some perhaps.
I really feel sorry for you guys in the US. Your government seems to be slowly introducing a totalitarian regime over there.

[NFuego20]

Let me ask this question....for purposes of being able to continue to play online (I don't question the fact that this law will greatly hurt the profitability and number of people playing the game), should we at some point actually take additional efforts now to get funds into Neteller or other similar accounts? I have read in a few places that according to some people's opinion, depositing will be the issue, but we should still be able to withdraw. This is obviously open to debate and my guess is it will take time to find out. However, to prevent a worst case scenario where Neteller stops accepting transfers in the near future, should we get the money in there now for purposes of sustaining play in the future?

I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

[BillJames]

NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[MannyIsGod]

[ QUOTE ]
NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill with your legal view in mind, at this point why would Neteller cooperate with the legislation? Would being considered a "rouge" company here in the United States really be of top concern from them?

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill with your legal view in mind, at this point why would Neteller cooperate with the legislation? Would being considered a "rouge" company here in the United States really be of top concern from them?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with Neteller "complying" with the US Government. If if the US bans the banks from dealing with Neteller then Neteller has no reason to bother dealing with US citizens. There would be too much confusion for it to be made worthwhile. Also, I'm sure that they aren't exactly looking to become an enemy with the US Government, which they certainly would become if they started helping Americans illegaly. Not to mention the entire ordeal of dealing with Americans and foreign bank accounts and what not is a huge hassle and probably not worthwhile for them.

[MannyIsGod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill with your legal view in mind, at this point why would Neteller cooperate with the legislation? Would being considered a "rouge" company here in the United States really be of top concern from them?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with Neteller "complying" with the US Government. If if the US bans the banks from dealing with Neteller then Neteller has no reason to bother dealing with US citizens. There would be too much confusion for it to be made worthwhile. Also, I'm sure that they aren't exactly looking to become an enemy with the US Government, which they certainly would become if they started helping Americans illegaly. Not to mention the entire ordeal of dealing with Americans and foreign bank accounts and what not is a huge hassle and probably not worthwhile for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I understand your speculation but I think its debateable that dealing with US customers isn't worth the hassle for Neteller. Its a huge market and the US rules simply do not apply to them because they are not a US company. They have no obligatio not comply with them.

I'm not saying they won't, but I do not think it is an open shut case either way. They have to view the US market as very important and I'm not so sure they're just going to walk away from it.

As for the blocking of transactions, I do not know the specifics - and imagine very few people here do - but I do know that a poster who claimed banking background and knowledge said that blocking EFTs was not nearly as easy or simple to accomplish as blocking credit card transactions because of the coding involved. It remains to be seen how feasible that is.

Its going to be a period of speculation either way here, and I hope that posters knowledgable in the appropriate fields help us shine some light on the situation.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with Neteller "complying" with the US Government. If if the US bans the banks from dealing with Neteller then Neteller has no reason to bother dealing with US citizens. There would be too much confusion for it to be made worthwhile. Also, I'm sure that they aren't exactly looking to become an enemy with the US Government, which they certainly would become if they started helping Americans illegaly. Not to mention the entire ordeal of dealing with Americans and foreign bank accounts and what not is a huge hassle and probably not worthwhile for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

the whole point is that there is no reason to believe the bolded section will take place.