The immigration issue (YouTube Republican debate)

gobbomom · #1 11-30-2007, 10:43 PM

I found it hilarious because heroism is completely subjective, as Alex so astutely pointed out. It's just as easy to consider McCain stupid as heroic in that example, because sometimes "dearly held principles" are just the ego's folly.

bkholdem · #2 12-01-2007, 07:06 AM

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I found it hilarious because heroism is completely subjective, as Alex so astutely pointed out. It's just as easy to consider McCain stupid as heroic in that example, because sometimes "dearly held principles" are just the ego's folly.

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So then that would also be true of AlexM's principles of property rights and natural rights, that they are ego's folly, yes?

gobbomom · #3 12-01-2007, 10:05 AM

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I found it hilarious because heroism is completely subjective, as Alex so astutely pointed out. It's just as easy to consider McCain stupid as heroic in that example, because sometimes "dearly held principles" are just the ego's folly.

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So then that would also be true of AlexM's principles of property rights and natural rights, that they are ego's folly, yes?

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um, surely you see that one thing does not lead to the other? IDK if you have some vendetta against Alex, which I've no interest in getting into, but I think it's easy to point out that one can't maintain "principles" of property rights and natural rights, merely ideas and opinions.

bkholdem · #4 12-01-2007, 10:10 AM

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I found it hilarious because heroism is completely subjective, as Alex so astutely pointed out. It's just as easy to consider McCain stupid as heroic in that example, because sometimes "dearly held principles" are just the ego's folly.

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So then that would also be true of AlexM's principles of property rights and natural rights, that they are ego's folly, yes?

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um, surely you see that one thing does not lead to the other? IDK if you have some vendetta against Alex, which I've no interest in getting into, but I think it's easy to point out that one can't maintain "principles" of property rights and natural rights, merely ideas and opinions.

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I have nothing against Alex, and am in fact an ACist. What is the difference between a "dearly held principle" and an "idea/opinion"?

gobbomom · #5 12-01-2007, 10:34 AM

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What is the difference between a "dearly held principle" and an "idea/opinion"?

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I started to post the difference but it felt condescending, so I deleted it. A principle is a value judgment made on moral or ethical grounds. An idea/ opinion doesn't necessarily involve a set of standards and can sometimes be quantifiable, whereas a principle cannot. Also,I didn't want to take this discussion in this direction here because it's really more appropriate for SMP don't you agree?

bkholdem · #6 12-01-2007, 11:25 AM

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What is the difference between a "dearly held principle" and an "idea/opinion"?

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I started to post the difference but it felt condescending, so I deleted it. A principle is a value judgment made on moral or ethical grounds. An idea/ opinion doesn't necessarily involve a set of standards and can sometimes be quantifiable, whereas a principle cannot. Also,I didn't want to take this discussion in this direction here because it's really more appropriate for SMP don't you agree?

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I agree it would derail things and is more appropriate for SMP or another thread but I will say this: I think that the overwhelming majority of ACist's here hold their opinions and idea's about property rights as extending from natural rights and do so on principle, or moral/ethical grounds. I could be wrong though.