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  #431  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:29 AM
toutatis70 toutatis70 is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 220
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

Uh Silly Sal. hello Silly Sal. Send us some evidence please. Should be on your computer.
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  #432  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:49 AM
mbpoker mbpoker is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 970
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
because looks like Tilt is pretty much the only site that catches these "advanced" bots, which can beat big games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Stars catches these bots long before they win significant amount of money so there is no much noise around this. Go to bot forums and ask where they recommend to play.
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  #433  
Old 11-03-2007, 06:57 AM
Rek Rek is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 747
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

This thread is seriously interesting now. Beforehand, I was very understanding of how an investigation could take so long and I had no problem with the freezing of sillysal’s account whilst this was undertaken. Better timescales should have been given by FTP as to the length of time the process was to take but apart from that I had no real problem as you know.

There is now a resolution with FTP confiscating the $47K and redistributing the money to “wronged” players.

In all disputes there can never be 100% certainty otherwise it is not a dispute but fact. Decisions will have to be made on the old “beyond all reasonable doubt” concept and it seems as though FTP is acting in this way.

• Is this right? Yes I think it is.
• Should FTP now have to back up their evidence? Absolutely, IMHO.
• Should sillysal be able to challenge FTP? Absolutely.

What the online poker industry needs is an appeal committee made up of representatives from the sites themselves, some high profile pros and independent bodies such as 2+2, Pocket Fives, etc. In a situation like this, FTP should be compelled to send their evidence to such a committee for an independent review. If FTP’s actions are upheld then the only recourse would be court action on the part of the player.

I think the committee should be paid for by a proportion of the rake that each site takes. This would do a few things:

• Give a certain legitimacy to online poker that may indeed pacify a lot of the people that object to the game.
• Give players a degree of comfort that they can appeal if they feel they have a strong grievance.
• Any site not signing up to be bound by the independent review could be boycotted by players. If players continued to play elsewhere they do so with the knowledge they have no recourse - don’t come crying with unfair complaints.

My take on this matter is that I believe FTP has undertaken a thorough review and that sillysal was guilty of wrongdoing. Without concrete evidence my reasons are:

• Sillysal’s account was obviously flagged for attention to security at FTP for whatever reason.
• Sillysal must have been generating huge volumes of rake and FTP would not want to lose this kind of income for no good reason.
• $47K is a big amount for an individual. It is peanuts to a major site like FTP and the only conclusion I can draw is that they have serious issues surrounding sillysal’s account.
• They are certainly not doing it to gain an extra $47K profit. Probably her rake amount per annum came to more than this.
• With the flak being generated in the direction of FTP here at 2+2 it would have been easy to have said they had investigated and cleared sillysal. They haven’t taken that option.

Could FTP have made an error? Of course. I can only go on what is said on these forums but to me I would have to assume that sillysal is guilty of something.

However, FTP should give sillysal a way of countering any claims against her. Come on FTP stand up and do the right thing. Show us you care about your players and let us know how we can be sure our innocent accounts will not be blocked and our money taken. Although I would sooner trust FTP than an unknown poster there is always the possibility sillysal is on the receiving end of some very bad judgement.

As the old saying goes “justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done”
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  #434  
Old 11-03-2007, 06:59 AM
Mike Haven Mike Haven is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Zoo, ATF, EB, etc
Posts: 7,043
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

This is posted without my having read a large number of the latest posts.

I have received information from FTP and others.

I hope to be able to read all within the next 4 hours or so.
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  #435  
Old 11-03-2007, 07:08 AM
whangarei whangarei is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: I :heart: Stars
Posts: 857
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
This is posted without my having read a large number of the latest posts.

I have received information from FTP and others.

I hope to be able to read all within the next 4 hours or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for getting on top of this Mike. If sillysal is guilty then she's guilty. But I would be interested in hearing the evidence. I am a relatively successful heads-up player. I use absolutely no software or any aid of any kind other than my mind to play. So this case concerns me for obvious reasons, especially when sillysal comes across as being innocent of any wrongdoing. I base that opinion only on the tone of her posts, which is why I would like to hear the evidence. I hope you can get to the bottom of this.
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  #436  
Old 11-03-2007, 07:16 AM
insyder19 insyder19 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 517
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

The one who said that "you don't have to be afraid if you haven't done nothing wrong" is a complete idiot.

I had a similar problem on partypoker and I have NEVER received any official statement from them after they have froozen my account with over 4k in it. Okay those are only 4 compared to 47k or so, but yet its money isn't it?

I am pretty sure that this guy is innocent because HOW could he has done chip dumping (because that's the most common reason people are banned for) on such high stakes?

And if he is a long time winner and has such a big amount of money in his account he wouldn't risk it all.

You guys need to understand that sites can close your account and you can't do nothing against it.
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  #437  
Old 11-03-2007, 08:27 AM
elrudo elrudo is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eindhoven Netherlands
Posts: 597
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

I find Mr.Gatorades 'no comment' disturbing, because I get the impression that Sillysal is a new type bot/ uses AI software that cannot yet be detected or determined by CrazyMike, and only after extensive investigation by Fulltilt.

How many more 'sillysal-type cheaters' are out there?
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  #438  
Old 11-03-2007, 08:36 AM
BurnleyMik BurnleyMik is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 538
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

Although I think it is good of FT to pass this info onto Mike, I think there is still a problem. FT could show Mike absolutely anything, they could show him "modified" information to support their case andd make sal look guilty. How does Mike know all the information he gets is genuine? Sal should also be able to see the same information Mike sees so she can confirm or refute the allegations.

I am not sayng this is what will happen, I am saying this is a distinct possibility when the poker site has its reputation to uphold.

This all stinks as far as I am concerned.

Still though, I cannot understand why over 3 weeks for the investigation if this was illegal software use??? This would mean no outside companies needing to be involved and FT should have had all the evidence they needed to hand. Seems fishy.
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  #439  
Old 11-03-2007, 08:49 AM
sillysal sillysal is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 53
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
Uh Silly Sal. hello Silly Sal. Send us some evidence please. Should be on your computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI everyone,

I am a real person, I need sleep like you all do. It's 5:45 AM in CA. I woke up after 3 hours sleep to come down and check the posts. I am going to explore and contact every avenue there is to get my money back and prove my innocence.

I will post hand histories, I will contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commision. I have contacted 2 Lawyers, and I have made calls to involve the media. I have contacted the 4 moderators that were on staff at the time I received the letter from FTP.

I will do everything in my power and I will post everything I do to keep you all in the loop. This is a very serious situation. If it happened to me, it can happen to you.

I welcome any solid advice. Please keep in mind, I do need 8-9 hours of sleep and I do have personal obligations that may keep me off this site, but rest assured this is NOT going away. I will try and answer EVERY single legitimate question and provide you all with valid information. Thank you


pokergirl z

(yes there is a space)
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  #440  
Old 11-03-2007, 08:57 AM
[Phill] [Phill] is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Blogging Again (Again)
Posts: 5,821
Default Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone - Who datamines and collects the HH's of the games at FT? and specifically the games that pokergirlz plays in (not sure of the exact spelling of her online handle)?

Can we collect some of these HH's and see if there is anything unusual or eye-catching in the stats?
Who has played with this player and who has data on her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know gehrig datamines those games (or used to) so he should have plenty of hands.

A question for MrGatorade...did you believe pokergirl z was botting? If so, why didn't you list her on your site?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am fully aware of the OP and the situation at hand here and wish to not comment further in this matter.

-Crazy Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Its REALLY interesting that the person who finds the most bots, even those who arent bots, earlier said of sal:

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever investigation that is going on with her was not initiated by me nor reported by me. Does that answer your question? I only care about bots not people having mulitple accounts. If she is or has used a bot in the past or present then I care.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Crazy Mike said she wasnt a bot, but then we have FTP locking and then confiscating the account for using botting software (im assuming thats what they mean, their wording is a little vague IIRC).

Ill repeat it:

[ QUOTE ]
I am fully aware of the OP and the situation at hand here and wish to not comment further in this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something does not sit right here - i smell conspiracy but i might be wrong. This wouldnt be the first case where Mike has wrongly accused someone of botting using his 100% guaranteed method (which has failed a few times) and that person had his account reinstated if memory serves me.
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